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Unlocking Your Inner Strength: The Right Way to Do Cold Therapy for Women | Kristin Weitzel
Cold therapy can be a powerful tool for fat loss, metabolic health, stress resilience, and recovery—but women need a different approach than men. In this episode, we break down the best way to use ice baths and cold exposure to support energy, hormones, and longevity without overstressing the body. Learn how to time your cold plunges, what temperature delivers the best results, and how breathwork can enhance the benefits while keeping your nervous system in balance.
🔹 How cold exposure impacts women’s metabolism & hormones
🔹 The best breathwork techniques for getting through an ice bath
🔹 How long, how cold, and how often you should plunge
🔹 The biggest mistakes women make with cold therapy
🔹 The surprising mental & emotional benefits of cold exposure
🔑 KEY TOPICS 🔑
How cold therapy affects women’s physiology differently than men
The best cold exposure & breathwork protocols for stress resilience
Why cold plunges help with fat loss, metabolism & longevity
When NOT to do cold therapy and how to avoid overdoing it
The right temperature & duration for maximum benefits
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00] Cold exposure as a tool for nervous system training and empowerment
[01:12] Why The Optimized Woman exists: taking back your health and energy
[02:35] Introduction to Kristin Weitzel and her cold + breathwork framework
[04:03] The mental benefits of cold exposure and neurochemical reset
[08:14] Cold therapy as a response to chronic stress and post-pandemic burnout
[09:09] How cold therapy protocols should differ for women
[13:46] Breathwork techniques before, during, and after a cold plunge
[19:05] The myth of “more is better” and when cold becomes overstimulation
[24:43] Contrast therapy, sauna pairing, and optimizing recovery windows
[30:03] Ice bath highs, dopamine chasing, and stress-recovery balance
[34:17] Using cold therapy during grief and heartbreak
[38:52] Reentering cold therapy after trauma or burnout
Guest: Kristin Weitzel
Website: https://www.sherpabreathandcold.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kristinweitzelofficial
🌐 LET'S CONNECT 🌐
Host: Orshi McNaughton
Co-Host: Katie Moore: https://www.youtube.com/ @katie_moore
Website: https://www.optimizedwomen.com/
Podcast Links: https://optimized-women.captivate.fm/listen
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@optimizedwomen
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/optimizedwomen
Transcript
Living into my greatest potential, feeling into the balance between sensitivity or softness and power is so important about being a woman in today's world.
Speaker A:There's this mental well being, this mental toughness, this resiliency building response that your body has from being in the cold.
Speaker A:Breathwork and cold exposure.
Speaker A:There's just no two modalities I have ever used in tandem that have been as expeditious for transformation as these two things.
Speaker A:None of us that are alive right now are the first people to do some specific breath protocol or some like cold plunge in a, in a natural body of water, right?
Speaker A:It's been going on for thousands of years.
Speaker A:We don't get in ice baths to get good at ice baths.
Speaker A:We get into ice baths to get good at life.
Speaker A:The real truth is, for those of you that really want to explore this, your nervous system is built to get you out in the first 60 seconds.
Speaker A:If safety is queen, then context is king.
Speaker A:Getting in the cold can really help shift your state and make you feel great.
Speaker A:It's the same thing as if we're going to the gym and working out, right?
Speaker A:Push heavy weight, Lift heavy shit, get in the cold.
Speaker A:It can shift our neurochemistry.
Speaker A:If you want to be in the now, sit in an ice bath for three minutes.
Speaker A:You'll be in the now.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Optimized Woman, the podcast for high performing women ready to take back their health.
Speaker B:I'm Orshi McNaughton, a board certified holistic health practitioner and functional nutritionist.
Speaker B:If you're tired of feeling stuck, you can't lose the weight.
Speaker B:No matter what you do, your energy is in the toilet, your metabolism feels like it's at a standstill, and you lost the spark you once had.
Speaker B:Then you're in the right place.
Speaker B:We are here to unleash the unstoppable force you're meant to be and give you the tools to fix what's holding you back.
Speaker B:So if you're ready to own it, start thriving again and live the life you deserve.
Speaker A:And let's get to it.
Speaker B:Today we are joined by Kristin Weitzel, a certified fitness trainer, breathwork instructor and nutritionist dedicated to empowering women to unlock their full potential.
Speaker B:This conversation, originally recorded for the Women's Biohacking Conference with my co host Katie Moore, delves into the transformative combination of breath work and cold exposure.
Speaker B:Kristin unpacks how these practices can reset your nervous system, build resilience, and help you connect deeply with your intuition and inner strength.
Speaker B:She also explores the science and art behind these Modalities providing practical strategies tailored specifically to women's unique physiology.
Speaker B:If you're ready to harness these tools to feel stronger, more balanced and in control of your well being, this episode is a must.
Speaker A:Listen.
Speaker B:So let's dive right in.
Speaker A:I'm working towards living into my greatest potential.
Speaker A:Feeling into the balance between sensitivity or softness and power.
Speaker A:Just so important about thing to think about when it comes to being a woman in today's world and just, yeah, here for it.
Speaker A:I'm so glad we can have this conversation.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, just to kind of piggyback off that, especially in a world like biohacking, which I feel for quite some time has been much more male centric in who's having the conversations, what kind of recommendations are being offered.
Speaker C:And so it's really refreshing to have these discussions as women who are thought leaders and biohackers in their own right.
Speaker C:It just needs the, the conversations just need to be tailored to fit our bodies.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You know, and I, and I think that's a great kind of transition into cold exposure because I tend to be sometimes a little masculine in my approach to competitiveness and I have a lot of guy friends in the space who are like, I can do 10 minutes in the cold.
Speaker C:And so I'm like, I can do 11.
Speaker C:And I, I think we all have fallen into this trap, right, where we're like, I can do better than that guy.
Speaker C:And it's all backwards to me now.
Speaker C:It's like, why did you ever care about that?
Speaker C:That's not what the point is.
Speaker C:So, Kristen, you've been doing cold exposure training therapy for years and years and years.
Speaker C:What is the point?
Speaker A:Yeah, great.
Speaker A:I mean, what is the point there?
Speaker A:You know, the, the thing you're talking about too, like this competitive piece sort of builds back to what I think is the biggest win when it comes to cold, which is really understanding the person who we are from a mental, even chemical standpoint.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There's this mental well being, this mental toughness, this resiliency building response that your body has from being in the cold and people who haven't.
Speaker A:It's like two types of people in the world.
Speaker A:People have been in cold, really cold, and people who haven't yet.
Speaker A:And then of course, we always have to be careful with contraindications because there are some medical contraindications.
Speaker A:So if anyone's listening to this, I'm very excited.
Speaker A:Katie's very excited about all the breath and all the cold exposure.
Speaker A:But we always want to make sure to mention you need to Feel safe.
Speaker A:And you need to make sure that if you have anything going on clinically that you double check and make sure a cold is good for you.
Speaker A:But for the rest of you, which cold is good for, there's this mental mindset benefit that comes and that's the cascade of neurochemistry in the body that happens especially when you get in.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And as you get out this is sort of the one, one thing that people really talk about.
Speaker A:Like it makes you feel good and it's charges your parasympathetic neurochemistry.
Speaker A:And the reality is it does when you get out, right.
Speaker A:Like you get in and you have this great hit of, you know, norepinephrine, adrenaline, oxytocin, if you're doing with other people.
Speaker A:But this cascade is happening in our body, you know, every millisecond, right.
Speaker A:It's always shifting, shifting, shifting.
Speaker A:And so when we're feeling low, when we're feeling stuck from a nervous system standpoint.
Speaker A:I was just shooting a video yesterday talking about sometimes we get stuck in like brokenheartedness and swirling around relationships and, or on the computer in an email, right.
Speaker A:When we're typing away feverishly and not really getting back into the power of now.
Speaker A:And even as like women biohackers and badasses that we are, there are moments we just get stuck in that, you know, it's beyond the flow state.
Speaker A:It's like a freeze and keep going grind state that has a little bit more of that like, like you mentioned earlier, like alpha energy.
Speaker A:And the reality is that we can unwind that by shifting our state.
Speaker A:We can really get into the power of now by sitting in the cold.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That's you have nowhere else that you can think about being.
Speaker A:Usually when you are sitting in a cold bath or an ice tub.
Speaker A:And those are the big wins for me.
Speaker A:Yes, people will talk a lot about.
Speaker A:There's a cascade of anti inflammatory things that are happening in the body after you get out of colds over the next few days, there's a boost of metabolism.
Speaker A:Again, it's not forever if you're not repeatedly plunging.
Speaker A:It's 36 hours or so.
Speaker A:There's so many longevity benefits that we see when you compare it to cryotherapy or cold showers, not to shunt those off, but they're, they're, they're bad modalities, they're great for short term benefits.
Speaker A:But we see so much more longevity benefits happening, you know, and a lot of conversation around brown fat tissue and recomping the body and there's a lot of it.
Speaker A:But when women or people are asking, should I be getting into the cold?
Speaker A:What's the biggest thing that's going to get me there or get them there?
Speaker A:It's the state of the world today.
Speaker A:The amount of the stress that we need to let go of and unwind from, the amount of mental unwell that exists post quarantine and all the things we've been going through and just the state of our.
Speaker A:Our shift as females on the planet.
Speaker A:Like, let's talk about physiological females or anyone who may be identifying as female.
Speaker A:There's been this really.
Speaker A:There's been a bit of an old guard for a long time.
Speaker A:And I'm definitely not people.
Speaker A:I say, you're a feminist.
Speaker A:It's like, I'm not a feminist.
Speaker A:I love men and women and people of all kinds.
Speaker A:But there's this shift, right, that is happening on the planet where we're sort of regaining touch as females with our softer side, our intuition, right?
Speaker A:And don't have soft.
Speaker A:Sometimes people are like, oh, that's weakness.
Speaker A:It's like our intuition.
Speaker A:So how do we, like, really tap into the people that we already are and rediscover that?
Speaker A:And I have found that breath work and cold exposure, there's just no two modalities I have ever used in tandem that have been as expeditious for transformation as these two things.
Speaker A:So to me, that's what cold's about.
Speaker A:Of course we can get into the nerdy huberman science of it all.
Speaker A:I teach a lot of that, but that's.
Speaker A:Those are the big wins.
Speaker C:You know, I just got full body chills, which I'm not sure if it's because we're talking about cold or if it's just that message resonates so much, and it is profound to think that we are in this time and place in which we have access to tools that can enhance what our own natural gifts are.
Speaker C:And isn't that really what biohacking is supposed to be?
Speaker C:It's just not about the gadgets.
Speaker C:And it's like something.
Speaker C:It's funny I say that because I'm a product reviewer and I love products, but my God, if you don't get back to the basics and you start with that foundation and that foundation is dialed in, you have no business doing anything else.
Speaker C:That's my opinion.
Speaker C:And cold is so basic.
Speaker C:So how cold does it really need to be?
Speaker C:Because I have heard so many different degree temperatures and I know we don't have to get that specific, but to really get those benefits that you're talking about.
Speaker C:How cold and how long.
Speaker C:What is a proper protocol for women?
Speaker A:Yeah, for women specifically, I mean I would, I would say number one, I tend to be just like fasting.
Speaker A:I tend to be a little bit more conservative with the female physiology.
Speaker A:I, I think if you're getting into cold like three to five times a week, like you're doing great.
Speaker A:And it's, it can be a lot of work to organize that if you don't have the benefit of living near a cold body of water or have like a fancy pants ice bath in your backyard.
Speaker A:And so, you know, three times a week feels amazing.
Speaker A:Men tend to, we see I say we people kind of in this cold space that men and their testosterone cycle and the way that their bodies work have a little bit more adaptation capacity for daily cold plunges.
Speaker A:I see some women and again a lot of this is anecdotal and bio individual but some women who go into the cold with super high stress buckets or super dysregulated hormones actually dysregulating themselves more.
Speaker A:And so if we're doing it daily and doesn't mean you can't do a 14 day or 30 day challenge.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:One of the first things I did on Instagram five years ago was like 35 days straight on cold and doing all these things practices every day doesn't mean you can't do that once in a while.
Speaker A:It's just like we don't need to do it every single day probably.
Speaker A:And so I'm more conservative on women with that.
Speaker A:But let's talk about time and temperature because that's really what most people are asking.
Speaker A:Temperature.
Speaker A:We see in the research anything and let's preface this quick thing which is the research is all over the place and widespread as you can imagine.
Speaker A:The sample sizes are tend to be smaller because you're managing a sample size of people in cold and that requires some logistics.
Speaker A:You are looking at research.
Speaker A:Maybe it's just an arm submerged in ice cold water or it's a natural body of water.
Speaker A:It's or it's swimming in movement or it's just sitting stagnant.
Speaker A:It's athletes, it's a lot of men.
Speaker A:It's, you know, all of these things are across the board and all of these things are across a multitude of temperatures and a multitude of variables that are controlled.
Speaker A:And also we got more research to do.
Speaker A:So no one come after me about all of the details after this in the sense that there are a lot of variables here to play with.
Speaker A:But what we tend to see is that and you know Andrew Huberman, our Lord Huberman, I call him now that he is out talking more about this and Suzanne Soberg's talking more about this.
Speaker A:There's some really good just firmament for this conversation versus argumentative behavior in the socials around temperature.
Speaker A:But we see anything sub 55 degrees Fahrenheit.
Speaker A:I don't know what the translation for Celsius for that is exactly, but 55 degrees Fahrenheit to what I would say 40, sub 40 degrees Fahrenheit, that's playing more in the like 4 or 5 degrees Celsius range now.
Speaker A:It's a huge range and I think some people are really nervous to going cold.
Speaker A:And it's absolutely great to get some benefits seeing this sub 55 degrees.
Speaker A:And the higher the temperature in that 40 to 55 or let's say 38 to 55, the longer you might want to stay in.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Because you can tolerate it a bit longer and you're trying to create a place where you're popping your resiliency to the next level.
Speaker A:And so you have to create what is the minimum effective dose of cold, that is stress that you are deliberately applying to the body for you.
Speaker A:So temperature ranges between 40 and 55.
Speaker A:I love sub and I love sub 40 because I believe like quite frankly, we can get in a shorter period of time.
Speaker A:We can get the work done.
Speaker A:We can, it's efficient and it's also highly effective because we want to create, we want to have our cold shock proteins folding better, which just makes our cells talk to each other better.
Speaker A:And that seems to happen around that 40 number.
Speaker A:And so if that's the case, I'm like, why not get everything?
Speaker A:I'm just going to go for it.
Speaker A:And again, doesn't mean you have to start there, right?
Speaker A:You can work there and time is going to be relative to the temperature.
Speaker A:But I start people at, I think most people can do 3 minutes sub 40 with a good coach if they need it.
Speaker C:I, I have done that before and it's, I mean for me.
Speaker C:And I think we can also talk a little bit more about this.
Speaker C:It's the breath work and the centeredness that gets me through it and actually makes it not feel like three minutes.
Speaker C:Because if you go in there and you are just shocked by the cold and you're not breathing, it's going to be the longest three minutes of your entire life.
Speaker C:But when you have a distraction, I mean sometimes I would even have music on or meditation or, you know, just to keep my mind thinking about something else.
Speaker C:And then once I discovered that I actually can use breathwork before, during, after, it elevates the game like so just walk us through kind of what your optimal breathwork practices and I'm sure it's always evolving.
Speaker C:But what, what do you generally suggest for someone's first time and then does it change as you do it more?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker A:Especially with like, you know, the onset of.
Speaker A:We all know who Wim Hof is, right?
Speaker A:He's been around for years.
Speaker A:He's proliferated this practice in a way that's really popularized it.
Speaker A:And I just think that that's been so needed.
Speaker A:Again, it's important to note, like none of us that are alive right now are the first people to do some specific breath protocol or some like cold plunge in a, in a natural body of water, right?
Speaker A:It's been going on for thousands of years.
Speaker A:And I'm so thankful that someone like Wim exists because he can bring it to the forefront and make it a bit more on trend, right?
Speaker A:Because he's quirky and fun and all of that.
Speaker A:The breath work for me, when someone is first starting, I really like to focus on down regulated breathing, right.
Speaker A:So if what we're doing is we are practicing, right, we don't get an ice bath to get good at ice baths, we get into ice baths to get good at life.
Speaker A:That's what I preach.
Speaker A:So if we're practicing for the thing to happen, right, the phone call to come, the breakup to happen, the tragic event, if we know that these stressors will arise, like sure shooting, something's going to come up in our life that's a challenge we have to deal with, that's unexpected.
Speaker A:Then we want to practice a breath work that is going to mirror what's happening in life, right.
Speaker A:I don't know if the truck is headed towards me and I don't know what's coming and it might just miss me.
Speaker A:I don't have, you know, a minute to do 30 rounds of super ventilated breathing and then hold on, I'm not.
Speaker A:I don't have time to prepare.
Speaker A:I don't know what's coming.
Speaker A:So I like to downregulate people with something like a simple 2x breathing, which means breathe in for a certain count and then double the exhale right on the side of the tub or near the body of water.
Speaker A:So in for two, out for four, in for three, out for six, in for four, out for eight.
Speaker A:Anything like that.
Speaker A:Just keep it simple.
Speaker A:You got a lot you're about to get in.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And down.
Speaker A:Regulating the system so that people can meet the cold or hit the stressor with the calmest state possible and also know that they're mirroring how the breath was behaving outside of the tub.
Speaker A:So I just want to get back to the breath I just had because all of us normal human bodies are going to get into the cold and have a response that feels like that's cold.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so how do we settle ourselves back down to mirror what we were just doing with calmer breathing on the side of the tub gives us something to match.
Speaker A:And that's how I coach for first timers.
Speaker A:So I want people to really be successful and I want people to manage what it feels like catching your breath amidst stress.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So that's to me where we start.
Speaker A:And then is it ever evolving?
Speaker A:It's so, ever evolving.
Speaker A:So many.
Speaker A:I mean, now I get in and it's like, of course my nervous system has that response, but I barely feel it.
Speaker A:I really love to play with protocols and of course I'll do some Wim Hof style and face down breathing and try different things to feel into my belly and my body.
Speaker A:And I recorded a whole play it cool challenge of 30 days of breathwork with five other masterful cold practitioners on the Other Ship app.
Speaker A:And people can follow along with that.
Speaker A:And it's just crazy in and out and dips and head dunks and there's just endless, endless supply of ways to titrate the stress dose.
Speaker A:And as long as you're safe, you can have a lot of fun as well.
Speaker A:So the breath can change in a hundred thousand different ways over the time that you are utilizing the cold.
Speaker A:And it doesn't always have to be overly ritualistic and it doesn't always have to be very can.
Speaker A:It can be fun as well.
Speaker C:I love the Other Ship app, by the way.
Speaker C:I think maybe we can link it below.
Speaker C:It's so good.
Speaker C:They really made it like, like the soul cycle of like in the terms of like, it's like there's like a sex appeal.
Speaker C:Like, it's just like, it's, it's so fun.
Speaker C:And I would definitely encourage if you're looking into really dipping your toes, pun intended, again, into like cold exposure and breath work.
Speaker C:It's a really like accessible way to do that.
Speaker C:And I'm excited that you're on the app.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think you guys are sending out this link as well.
Speaker A:But I also have A track of breathwork that's just a standard down regulation breathwork guided playlist, if you will, that have the guided breathwork, two tracks on it, a guided breath work and then also a beginner's guided cold plunge that mirrors some of the things I recorded with Othership.
Speaker A:That's just like an easy free download that people can download on Sherpa breath and cold.com under listen.
Speaker A:So it's, it's, it's.
Speaker A:There are tools out there.
Speaker A:If you don't have access, easy access to a coach to, to feel like you're fine.
Speaker A:And like you said, you know, Katie, it's like put on music, strategic distraction, put on your, put a little speaker out there, play the track and I kind of walk you through how to do it.
Speaker A:It's like I'm sort of there in spirit, coaching, coaching alongside any, anyone who's, who's practicing this for the first time.
Speaker C:I want to talk about people who have been doing this for a very long time and this idea that, oh, you know, too much of a good thing is not always the best thing.
Speaker C:And there's a couple of angles I want to take with this.
Speaker C:The first one being somebody who no longer feels the stress of the cold.
Speaker C:I and I had many friends who will go out in their 32 degree forge in the middle of winter and be able to sit there for 10, 20 minutes and then they got.
Speaker C:It's like, and it's become so habitual that it's, they're not getting those desired benefits anymore like they used to when you first did it.
Speaker C:I mean, also, if you think about how dopamine works, it kind of makes sense.
Speaker C:But I don't want to get too derailed.
Speaker C:What do you recommend when that happens?
Speaker C:Like take a big break or, you know, make it colder.
Speaker C:Like, what's, how do you get that.
Speaker A:At some point you're going to be like chipping away, climbing in an ice cube.
Speaker A:But it's, you know, there's, there's such a beautiful rabbit hole of a question.
Speaker A:But let's talk about a couple of things.
Speaker A:First, the Joe Rogan experience, right?
Speaker A:I love Joe Rogan, but I always talk about him because he really sensationalized in this way that I think is a good learning tool.
Speaker A:What happens in cold with people and ego and just life, right.
Speaker A:And competitive edge.
Speaker A:So he got into his cold tub in his backyard on Instagram Live for like just about a minute, maybe a couple seconds over a minute, the first time he ever got in and then got out.
Speaker A:And then we all know what happened behind the scenes, or I presuppose this, I don't actually know, but I'm assuming that David Goggins and Jocko Willink and all his boys from the MMA world were like, hey, you're a big tough guy.
Speaker A:You did a minute in the cold.
Speaker A:You suck.
Speaker A:You better, you know, pull up your bootstraps and put your big girl panties on or whatever they said to him, right?
Speaker A:And then two days later, he gets in the cold on Instagram live 21 and a half minutes, and you can see him.
Speaker A:You can watch the whole thing.
Speaker A:I'm assuming it's still up, but you can watch the whole thing.
Speaker A:And you can see the different states of nervous system tone.
Speaker A:And he's like, almost hypothermic.
Speaker A:And supposedly, again, like, you know, I hear from people who are connected to him that it was like four or five hours afterwards, he was, like, super cold, couldn't quite fight shivers on and off, whatever, you know, that maybe he thinks, hey, that might have been too long now if he called me tomorrow and said, let's have a contest, who could stay in longer?
Speaker A:I'm showing up.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:I'm still showing up.
Speaker A:I'm still going to play the game.
Speaker A:I'm still all the things.
Speaker A:And with 4 million plus views and all the followers that he has, I'd like to say or argue that he has a responsibility to kind of talk about that and maybe say that wasn't the best choice.
Speaker A:That is because we're playing the game of competitive edge.
Speaker A:We're playing the game with our ego.
Speaker A:We need our ego.
Speaker A:It protects us.
Speaker A:And also, like, all the BDE that comes along with, like, staying in for 21 and a half minutes.
Speaker A:I want to say this out loud over and over again.
Speaker A:I'm going to keep saying it.
Speaker A:So people are kind of like, okay, I get it.
Speaker A:It's your minimum effective dose of stress.
Speaker A:And at some point, that dose of stress becomes diminishing returns.
Speaker A:And we're actually, even if you look at Suzanne Soberg's commentary on cold now, we actually could be detrimentally affecting ourselves.
Speaker A:So it's like, at what point do you feel like you've dosed your stress appropriately?
Speaker A:Which could vary every day, right?
Speaker A:We could have some big things going on in work and life.
Speaker A:We could have like, I'm in the middle of a move, and there's this, like, twofold edge of cold, where if your nervous system is pretty tweaked and stressed and you're better off with, like, A hot bath or rest or a red light or a nighttime walk in nature or whatever.
Speaker A:Great, then do that.
Speaker A:And there's some cases where your nervous system might be so stuck that getting in cold is actually going to help you reset it.
Speaker A:So we all have to learn and decide for our own bodies where those points are.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so this is the, this is the game with time and this is the game with going too long and too hard and how we can actually hurt our system or dysregulate or turn ourselves off to it.
Speaker A:Which is the last thing I want for people is to, like, think they have to go in for 12 minutes.
Speaker A:It's like, if you get in, it's a success.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And the real truth is, for those of you that really want to explore this, your nervous system is built to get you out in the first 60 seconds.
Speaker A:So every, anywhere between 60 and 90 seconds, I've sort of coined this phrase that's.
Speaker A:I call it the turnover, where it's like this physiological response of your body shunting blood to keep your core warm is happening in the middle of a sympathetic charge while you're realizing how challenging it is and then starting to realize you're doing it, you're doing it.
Speaker A:Oh, my God, I'm doing this thing.
Speaker A:I'm stronger than I think I was.
Speaker A:This is incredible.
Speaker A:And so your physiological system and your mental state, your mindset are kind of connecting in one moment.
Speaker A:And I kind of call that the turnover.
Speaker A:Because if you've, I put over like 3, 000 people one on one in the ice, you can start to see the eyes change and then people settle a bit.
Speaker A:And that turnover is a beautiful moment.
Speaker A:And so I just, I. I say this because I want people who are trying to know your body is built to get out in the first 60 seconds.
Speaker A:It's nervous, it's saving you.
Speaker A:It doesn't know you're deliberately, intentionally doing this.
Speaker A:So at the beginning, get in and really work to stay for the first 60 or 90 seconds if you decide to get out.
Speaker A:60, 90 seconds in, totally fine.
Speaker A:Still a success.
Speaker A:It's a success no matter what.
Speaker A:And I want you to feel the turnover because it actually will get a little easier.
Speaker A:And people don't believe me till they get there or till they get their neck in or whatever.
Speaker A:But it's like, get to that turnover moment and you'll really be able to be like, amazing.
Speaker A:And then you can decide if it's time for you to get out or, you know, what happens next.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And if you do Wear some type of like, fitness tracker, Watch what happens to your heart rate as you settle.
Speaker C:It was because I would often do asana, then cold plunge.
Speaker C:And I just, I loved that combination of like, definitely high stress, right?
Speaker C:But it became like my ritual.
Speaker C:And so I would get up to like 160, almost like as if I were doing a light run.
Speaker C:BPM, get in the cold plunge.
Speaker C:I'm telling you, like one minute in, drops down to 59.
Speaker C:And I mean, I don't know how healthy that is long term, but like, it was just to see these two extremes and what happens when you combine them together.
Speaker C:You, like, in my experience, anecdotally, I just felt like unstoppable for the rest of the day.
Speaker C:It was an incredible force.
Speaker C:And so do you recommend people do the heat therapy or are you kind of a purist?
Speaker C:And I don't ever call anybody like a purist.
Speaker C:I'm just half joking.
Speaker C:But like, you know, you know, in people were like, no, you got to do it on its own.
Speaker C:Like, you don't get any help of heat.
Speaker C:Are you are like, tell me what you're like.
Speaker A:So, like, this is the thing.
Speaker A:Like, I, you know, I teach a lot of science and a decent amount of ritual.
Speaker A:And there's lots of practices out there that there that are like singing bowls and, you know, and I use those tools and I smudge a room when I'm at a yoga studio before I do like all of that.
Speaker A:And it's like, how do we stretch the most important thing, right?
Speaker A:If safety is queen, then context is king, right?
Speaker A:To be like, how are we going to utilize these modalities?
Speaker A:And I think that we have to sort of play in the range of all of these spaces.
Speaker A:And when it comes to cold absolutist thinking or comes to anything, I don't like people who have absolutist thinking.
Speaker A:So I love asana.
Speaker A:I'm like, I have a little bit of an opinion that I really like a hot, dry barrel sauna and a heat level that goes over 170 versus red light.
Speaker A:Doesn't mean I don't go on red light saunas.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:I'm happy to do both.
Speaker A:I, I am a bit of a purist myself, as I do cold way more than I do contrast.
Speaker A:But the thing, the big tip here is for anybody who's listening or watching this is if you're doing contrast therapy, let's do one thing that's real smart, which is let's not let the machines do the work, right?
Speaker A:Our body loses the benefit if we're just like, I'm freezing cold, so I'm going to get into the sauna to warm up.
Speaker A:And if I'm coming out of the sun, I'm super sweaty.
Speaker A:Of course it's easy to get in that first minute.
Speaker A:So I sort of mandate with my clients, if they're doing contrast, that they need to have five minutes in between heat and cold.
Speaker A:And this is where a lot of people like, look, I'm never going to say you're doing it wrong.
Speaker A:I'm never going to say that.
Speaker A:I'm just going to say, if you're going to be brave and bold to do your 20 minutes of sauna or your 10 minutes of high heat sauna and you're going to do cold for three to five minutes, why would you want to do those, those challenging, exciting practices and then waste the effort of doing that by taking down the dose that you're giving your body?
Speaker A:And like, we have to let our body do the work.
Speaker A:The beautiful cascade of cellular benefits happens when you get out of the cold and there's a parasympathetic rebound.
Speaker A:The beautiful cascade of benefits from the sauna and all cause mortality reduction happen when you get out of the sauna and your body has to cool off.
Speaker A:So it's like, let's, let's play with those variables in a way that feels really good instead of again, using the technology to fix the temperature issue.
Speaker A:Now, I will say you always want to know your heat source is if you're doing this in nature.
Speaker A:And of course there'll be circumstances where you need to go right in the sauna because let's say you were.
Speaker A:I went plunging in Ontario in the middle of winter with like a wind chill factor and all the things.
Speaker A:And of course I got out of the cold, I took a two minutes maybe and I got right in the sauna because there's a lot of cold weather and wind.
Speaker A:And if you're not doing horse dance or activity and you're not getting in a sauna, you could go, you could get hypothermia.
Speaker A:Like, look, it's a stretch.
Speaker A:People go get way too nervous about hypothermia that quickly.
Speaker A:And also we want to be safe, right?
Speaker A:And we want to know our context.
Speaker A:What's our goal?
Speaker A:Am I getting in because I'm just trying to be like B. Joe Rogan?
Speaker A:Am I getting in because I want to potentiate my sports performance?
Speaker A:Am I getting in because I want to relax and recover my muscles from a tough workout or I'm Getting over this ease state or I'm preventatively caring for myself, right?
Speaker A:So playing with hot and cold is so fun and it's easier.
Speaker A:This is like just because of the people I talk to.
Speaker A:Most people are like, cool, I'll get in a sauna for a while.
Speaker A:It's like easier, right?
Speaker A:Somehow.
Speaker C:And I don't know the logic behind that, but I guess that we have, we've just been conditioned to have this like, feeling that being cold is worse than being hot.
Speaker C:And I don't, I don't know where that comes from, but I'm sure.
Speaker A:But also, if you think about like thermoregulation and the way that we live in the world, it's like people like go to the beach or go to the desert or get out in the sun and like, there's just something about that that is like the warming direction.
Speaker A:It's like a, a better thing.
Speaker A:Maybe we're more drawn to the light that comes along with it all.
Speaker A:Fire and, and sun.
Speaker A:And it's a great question we could explore in another.
Speaker C:I mean, maybe it's even a feminine, masculine thing, Right.
Speaker C:You know, I mean, I've never actually thought about that until right this second.
Speaker C:You know, it's like the, the.
Speaker C:Well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole.
Speaker C:We could talk about that for hours, but we'll come back to that.
Speaker C:I wanted to talk about the, the high.
Speaker C:So, like, I'm gonna call this like the dopamine rush or the ice bath high, which I kind of haven't experienced since the runner's high.
Speaker C:I think the first time I did, and this was contrast therapy, I was using a hot barrel sauna and I got into the cold and it was, it was like 38 degree pool, right?
Speaker C:And I got into that sauna.
Speaker C:I'm telling you, Kristen, I never felt.
Speaker C:I thought I was on drugs.
Speaker C:I had a rush to my head that felt so good that I then got addicted to doing that.
Speaker C:Like, I know exactly what I did wrong.
Speaker C:But like, that high, I've never experienced that before in my life.
Speaker C:And I wanted to keep replicating it over and over and over and over every day.
Speaker C:And then I got to the point of burnout because my, my body got so stressed.
Speaker C:And so I'm just curious, have you experienced that?
Speaker C:I'm sure you have that, that like, unbelievable natural high.
Speaker C:And what do you recommend for people who tend to be type A, very like dopamine addicted to do when you know, like, I want that high every.
Speaker A:Day Yeah, I mean like the thing is people are.
Speaker A:I'm a firm believer in people can do whatever they want.
Speaker A:Their bodies.
Speaker A:But this is why we talk.
Speaker A:People are talking on podcasts about dopamine fasting.
Speaker A:And I look, it happens to me too.
Speaker A:I'm like at a red light the other day and I'm like, oh, and let me check Instagram, what am I doing?
Speaker A:And it's sitting in a red light.
Speaker A:Like there's.
Speaker A:This is a neurochemical pathway.
Speaker A:So I'm giving myself one piece of an excuse to be like, okay, I know why this is happening.
Speaker A:And it ain't cute.
Speaker A:Like, it's really not cute how we're all getting so lost in the sauce, right?
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Part of my business is to be in social media and sharing education and all those things.
Speaker A:And so it's like really hard to take a little bit of a dose of it.
Speaker A:And I think there's the similar thing with the, the ice.
Speaker A:And I do, I have worked with a lot of people in addiction who are coming out of addiction and getting in cold and saying, look, this is helping me stay sober.
Speaker A:And I can see that and I can understand that.
Speaker A:And as a twofold path, number one, there is something about the chemistry hit in your brain that's gonna liken, you know, what you felt when you shut up or whatever, right?
Speaker A:And so like there's, it's super interesting how that happens.
Speaker A:And there is also something to be said about, well, getting in cold or getting in heat are way better practices than taking drugs in my opinion.
Speaker A:And seemingly medically.
Speaker A:And so the other piece is, you know, we gonna get, we're gonna get this rush.
Speaker A:It makes us feel good.
Speaker A:It's why if you're feeling really depressed, if you're feeling low, if you're feel dealing with ptsd, whether it's self diagnosed or clinically diagnosed, getting in the cold can really help shift your state and make you feel great.
Speaker A:It's the same thing as if we're going to the gym and working out, right?
Speaker A:Push heavy weight, lift heavy shit, get in the cold.
Speaker A:It can shift our neurochemistry.
Speaker A:And like anything else, we're only as fit as what we can recover from.
Speaker A:We want to be able to recover from those stressors and we want to be able to make sure that we are titrating our dose of stress so that it keeps being effective.
Speaker A:And so I think a lot of people are overdoing it in some ways.
Speaker A:Cold specifically because it's like fun and community and great.
Speaker A:And then other people are feeling this thing that feels almost like, you know, the rush chasing the dragon, right.
Speaker A:And that is a little less optimal perhaps because we have to be able to have some self awareness around.
Speaker A:Hey, what.
Speaker A:Why is this happening?
Speaker A:For me, I'm certainly not saying if someone's like, I'm gonna head to the liquor store versus getting in the cold bath that they shouldn't got themselves in a cold plunge.
Speaker A:Again, it's context.
Speaker A:But the, the real big question here is like.
Speaker A:Or the real big thing I want to explore, I continue to explore here is getting in and being like, hell yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, it feels so good.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And like saying to people, you don't have to muscle through it all.
Speaker A:Like there is, you know, in sherpa breath and cold, right?
Speaker A:Which is part of the, well, power life umbrella.
Speaker A:This all the work I'm doing with training instructors and whatnot.
Speaker A:Sherpa is actually an acronym and the S stands for surrender.
Speaker A:For me, that's the most important piece to know that exists in the umbrella of this work, which is how do we sort of surrender to the person that we are and the experience as opposed to white knuckling it and holding on for dear life.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:When I work in CrossFit gyms, I see this a lot.
Speaker A:Men and women.
Speaker A:A type personality is just like holding on for dear life.
Speaker A:I'm gonna do this six minutes no matter what.
Speaker A:And I would say that can be a success.
Speaker A:I would also argue after 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 times of doing it or getting up to your chest and being like in the cold, that actually what you're doing is you are like confounding or confusing the system because it's staying in that sympathetic charge.
Speaker A:You are not getting the beautiful opportunity that you could potentially have of saying, can I just be in the stillness, in the now, in the moment?
Speaker A:This is like, this is what cold is.
Speaker A:This is what something that feels uncomfortable that I'm trying to like.
Speaker A:I say this a lot.
Speaker A:Your comfort zone's killing you.
Speaker A:If you're comfort, if you can lift a 450 pound barbell, if you're like throwing weights around, like, no problem.
Speaker A:I cool.
Speaker A:I'm sure you can muscle through an ice bath.
Speaker A:Show me the other side of you.
Speaker A:Show me the, the yin or yang.
Speaker A:And that surrender piece is really about sitting in stillness, sitting in the now, sitting in your own capacity.
Speaker A:And I think it's where a lot of the lessons bubble up from being in the cold.
Speaker A:Because we start to say, okay, everything doesn't have to be on alpha.
Speaker A:Like it is so much with so many of us these days.
Speaker A:And stillness is hard.
Speaker A:And if you want to be in the now, sit in an ice bath for three minutes, you'll be in the now.
Speaker A:But how do we, like, surrender to that?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:That's the beauty of the practice, is we can play both.
Speaker A:Both sides.
Speaker C:I. I love everything you just said and hit a nerve for me because I went through a very, very difficult breakup back in October, and my whole world kind of came crashing down, and I sought therapy in the ice bath.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was like that moment where I simultaneously was dealing with my stress but also forgetting all my problems at the same time.
Speaker C:And I look back and I wish I didn't overdo it, because I. I think my immune system and my stress was higher than it had ever been.
Speaker C:And I think it might have been too much stress, but I have to say it served its purpose.
Speaker C:And I think there's something about that.
Speaker A:Earlier you said, like, I did this wrong.
Speaker A:And I just want to say, like.
Speaker A:Like the reframe is you did what you needed to do to learn that there's a balance and that all in doesn't necessarily have to be all in the ice every single day.
Speaker A:And what a beautiful lesson, right?
Speaker A:It's happening for you so you can continue to talk to people about it.
Speaker A:When they show up and say I should do cold.
Speaker A:So we can even have this conversation right now, you know, it's like, you did it.
Speaker A:It's therapeutic.
Speaker A:It's no surprise to me because I talk about this a lot.
Speaker A:And also I have trauma therapists, and I have plant medicine facilitators and other people working in the mental wellness space come to the Sherpa breath and cold instructor training all the time because they want to know the science, understand the woo, right?
Speaker A:The wooniverse of energetics that is around it.
Speaker A:And they want to be able to put those things into their practices.
Speaker A:And here's the cool part, right, I think is when you're in an ice bath, when I see someone in an ice bath, and maybe over time, this is like what I've experienced, but when I really have watched all of these bodies, these human forms in all of their pain or agony or glory or joy or success or failure or heartbreak or grief, get into the cold.
Speaker A:When I watch these bodies get into the cold, what I get to sit with, this is why it's so incredible, I'm so honored to do this work, is three minutes in the cold.
Speaker A:I get to watch someone is like a microcosm of their entire Life.
Speaker A:It's their stress, adaptation.
Speaker A:It's like, what happens to them.
Speaker A:It's the way that they are going to navigate their lives.
Speaker A:It's them seeing their own greatness.
Speaker A:It's them having their heart broken open again.
Speaker A:And it's all happening without talk therapy, without.
Speaker A:You know, and it's not to say that these other therapies aren't great.
Speaker A:It's just all happening in a way that feels so beautifully expanded.
Speaker A:And so, you know, this is, again, like, why I'm honored to do the work, because I get to see these things.
Speaker A:And it reminds me all the time.
Speaker A:We have grief, we have stress, we have heartbreak, we have joy.
Speaker A:We all have these things.
Speaker A:And I see that reflection in people that are getting in the cold all the time.
Speaker A:So it's like, why not three minutes in the cold to change and transform your life in a way?
Speaker A:Again, like, I'm not here healing anybody, but people are getting in three minutes and going, oh, my God, there I am.
Speaker A:There I am, all of me.
Speaker A:Like, this shitty stuff and the hard things and the challenge and the joy and the contemplation, you know, there I am.
Speaker A:And then that's the biggest mirror, right?
Speaker A:And so we get to put this practice in and cut through the bullshit and say, okay, I know what I can do.
Speaker A:I know what I can't.
Speaker A:And I actually.
Speaker A:I've had some days lately in the move and in my life and with my heart that I've gotten in the cold and been like, oh, wow, I'm actually way more stressed than I realize.
Speaker A:Or I'm actually more sad that I'm not.
Speaker A:I'm, like, pushing it all down.
Speaker A:Or I'm actually feeling pretty excited about this other thing, and I'm not giving myself enough credit.
Speaker A:And so, like, that's the jam, right?
Speaker A:And that's why you loved it.
Speaker A:That's why you got into it.
Speaker A:Because every day you're chipping away like that sculptor, the sculptor who's like, I don't know what it's going to be, but I'm just chipping away at the parts of me that don't serve me.
Speaker A:And then in the end, it's like, just beautiful you.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And so why.
Speaker A:Why not?
Speaker A:Why not cold people?
Speaker C:Yeah, I. I love what you said, because I do think when you're dialed in, it does become a litmus test for you.
Speaker C:You do start to realize, like, oh, wow, there was something that I wasn't dealing with, you know, and now I'm dealing with it in this cold water.
Speaker C:And I I haven't been in cold in a really long time because I have had this and I don't know if maybe other people have had this experience, but like, when you do overdo something and it is surrounded by a traumatic experience, it's sometimes hard going back in the water because I'm nervous that it's going to bring up some of that shit again.
Speaker C:What advice do you have for me and probably other people that have been through that because it's hard mentally?
Speaker A:The advice that I have for you is you can do hard things.
Speaker A:And I see you and I know what it's like to feel like you have to overcome a hurdle and start again, you know, like when you're like, my whole life is burned to the ground, you know, And I talk to people in all different life states all the time.
Speaker A:And I think we have to make change.
Speaker A:And the way that we can make change for ourselves is by stepping back in the cold or stepping back into the things that are scary.
Speaker A:And the reality is the anticipation of all of this is way worse than you just going and doing it.
Speaker A:That's real.
Speaker C:I think you inspired me.
Speaker C:I might, I, I might actually go get some ice and do a cold plunge today and I'll send you a picture because we're Instagram friends.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker C:I, I honestly, this has been such a re energizing talk about cold therapy, because I think I got numb to it with just the overload of huberman talking about it.
Speaker C:And, well, you know, it just became so much about this, you know, and I love the science, but it became so science, like methodical.
Speaker C:And there's a whole spiritual element that I think you had just finally brought to the surface for me that I, I maybe had forgotten or never really knew all along.
Speaker C:So this was incredible.
Speaker C:I, I just want to give you a hug.
Speaker C:I know you're so far away, but you're incredible and I scare it.
Speaker A:Katie, it's so amazing to spend this time with you.
Speaker A:I know this is what I said.
Speaker A:It's super helpful and like, you know that other women in this biohacking sphere can try these practices work with breath cold download some of the things I have, find other practitioners they love.
Speaker C:Where can people find you most accessibly get in touch with you?
Speaker A:Two places.
Speaker A:The first place we've been talking a lot about sherpa breath and cold.com and also I have a podcast that's called WellPower and I share a lot of these, these modalities and free information on the WellPower podcast, which is also WellPower Life.
Speaker A:Check it all out.
Speaker A:Listen a ton of free resources, downloads, guides, audio tracks, all of that.
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