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How to Reverse Premature Aging: The Interplay of Nutrition & Dermatology | Dr. Jennifer Haley
Episode Summary:
Your skin isn’t just about looking good—it reflects your inner health. In this episode, we explore how cold therapy, breathwork, hormones, metabolism, fat loss, recovery, and stress resilience all contribute to skin vitality. Learn how diet, hormone balance, and targeted supplements support clear, youthful skin and discover practical, holistic strategies for protecting your largest organ at any age.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
🔹 How hormones & metabolism impact skin elasticity and aging
🔹 Why gut health and nutrient-dense foods are key to a radiant complexion
🔹 How breathwork & stress management can clear your skin from the inside out
🔹 The power of collagen, peptides, and micro-needling for reducing fine lines
🔹 Skin-protecting tips for safe sun exposure, cold therapy, and recovery
🕐 TIMESTAMPS 🕐
[00:00] How Dr. Haley Became a Holistic Dermatologist & Bridging Nutrition & Fitness
[04:50] Hormones, Stress & the Immune Connection
[09:00] Sun Exposure, Vitamin D & Skin Cancer Myths
[12:45] Root Causes of Acne, Melasma & Chronic Skin Conditions
[16:50] Botox vs. Natural Aging: Pros & Cons
[20:30] Collagen & Protein Intake for Youthful Skin
[28:15] Microneedling, Peptides & Scar Management
[38:20] Daily Skincare, Seasonal Adjustments & Final Takeaways/
🎙️ GUEST: DR. JENNIFER HALEY 🎙️
- Instagram: @drjenhaley
- Podcast: “Radiance Revealed”
🌐 LET'S CONNECT 🌐
Host: Orshi McNaughton
Website: https://www.optimizedwomen.com/
Podcast Links: https://optimized-women.captivate.fm/listen
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@optimizedwomen
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/optimizedwomen
💚 Calocurb is a 100% plant-based supplement that helps curb cravings and support healthy appetite control. 👉 Get 10% off, use discount code: 10OFF to purchase Calocurb @ https://www.calocurb.com/10OFF
Transcript
So when we do something internally, how effective it is on our skin is dependent on our blood supply.
Speaker A:So having a good blood supply is going to allow the nutrients and the oxygen to get delivered and then the lymphatics and the blood supply to remove the metabolic waste products.
Speaker A:So often if someone's puffy under their eyes, I want them to do rebounding, jumping jacks, anything that's going to help boost their lymphatics, because it's just stuck.
Speaker A:And that's why hydration is important.
Speaker A:It's not talked about enough how important our interstitium is in getting things to flow and cycle and move through.
Speaker A:We need internal nourishment and external nourishment because the skin is defending us from the outside world.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Optimized Woman, the podcast for high performing women ready to take back their health.
Speaker B:I'm Orshi McNaughton, a board certified holistic health practitioner and functional nutritionist.
Speaker B:If you're tired of feeling stuck, you can't lose the weight.
Speaker B:No matter what you do, your energy is in the toilet, your metabolism feels like it's at a standstill, and you lost the spark you once had, then you're in the right place.
Speaker B:We are here to unleash the unstoppable force you meant to be and give you the tools to fix what's holding you back.
Speaker B:So if you're ready to own it, start thriving again, and live the life you deserve.
Speaker B:And let's get to it.
Speaker B:Hey, friends.
Speaker B:Most people think of their skin as something to treat from the outside in.
Speaker B:But the real story is happening beneath the surface.
Speaker B:Your nutrition, hormones, gut, health, and even stress all show up on your skin.
Speaker B:Today I'm sitting down with Dr.
Speaker B:Jennifer Healy, a board certified dermatologist with a background in nutrition.
Speaker B:To break down what actually causes premature aging in various skin conditions.
Speaker B:We are cutting through the noise on Botox, whether it's safe or toxic, what causes skin cancer, and why most skincare routines are overcomplicated.
Speaker B:We also get into the connection between diet and aging, why your skin needs more protein, and the latest biohacks for reversing skin damage.
Speaker B:So let's get into it.
Speaker A:So I did not want to be a dermatologist.
Speaker A:I did not think a dermatologist was a real doctor.
Speaker A:I wanted to be a pediatrician.
Speaker A:And one day I was on my pediatric rotation and I was told, oh, you need to spend a half day in a specialty clinic.
Speaker A:And dermatology was one of the options.
Speaker A:And I was like, fine, it'll be an easy Afternoon.
Speaker A:It's not like a real doctor anyway.
Speaker A:And I went to the dermatology clinic.
Speaker A:And for anyone who's listening that doesn't know, most doctors can get through all of their training and not do a single single day of dermatology because it's a specialty that you have to choose to electively do.
Speaker A:So I could have gone through all my training never doing dermatology.
Speaker A:Well, I spent that afternoon in the dermatology clinic.
Speaker A:This was in the 90s, mid to late 90s, and it was the forefront of lasers making its way.
Speaker A:And I loved it because we would do some laser technology, then we would do a full skin check and detect skin cancer.
Speaker A:I was able to realize that you can look at somebody's skin and identify internal disease.
Speaker A:And it was mind blowing to me how I could look and see a spot on someone's palm and understand they had heart disease without having to poke them or explore inside their body and be invasive or anything like that.
Speaker A:And it was just a magical moment when I realized that it's the ultimate Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker A:So being the idealistic person that I thought I was, when you're young, in your 20s and early 30s, you, I thought, oh, if I could learn all of the knowledge on dermatology, I can cure everyone.
Speaker A:And slowly, over the 20 years of clinical practice, I realized that western medicine is a responsive kind of medicine.
Speaker A:It's not preventative.
Speaker A:And my undergraduate degree was in nutrition.
Speaker A:So while I was taught genetics was everything I was taught nutrition played no role whatsoever.
Speaker A:I actually always questioned that in my mind because it made no sense.
Speaker A:If you're taking medicine by mouth and, and that magically works, but your food doesn't make a difference, how does that even sound?
Speaker A:It doesn't even make any sense.
Speaker A:So I listened to my patients.
Speaker A:I would have people who were perfectly clear with their acne medication, and then they'd come back after Christmas, after the holidays, and break out.
Speaker A:And long before, it was well known that sugar and dairy and other things we do can influence acne.
Speaker A:I noticed this because my patients would tell me this, then this.
Speaker A:And I began to have more of a holistic integrative approach.
Speaker A:With my background in nutrition, my background in fitness, and always wanting to.
Speaker A:I don't want to use the word biohack.
Speaker A:I prefer what you use, the optimization, health optimization.
Speaker A:Like, what can we utilize around us and what can we learn from nature that can optimize our health from within and we're actually healthy from within.
Speaker A:It shows on our skin down to everything, like our actual Health and our thoughts and our relationships and all of it.
Speaker A:We have this radiance to us, this glow to us.
Speaker A:And I think the skin is a result of actual changes.
Speaker A:But sometimes you have to start at the skin because if you can get a good result with your skin, then everything else falls into place.
Speaker B:I think it's so true that your skin is such a reflection of your overall health.
Speaker B:I think when somebody just take a quick glance at you, you can see how healthy you are.
Speaker B:And so this is why so many women are focusing on trying to improve their skin health.
Speaker B:So my first question is, what are the most common like skin conditions that women come to you with and what do you think are biggest root cause issues?
Speaker A:Well, there's so many.
Speaker A:There's medical, surgical and cosmetic dermatology.
Speaker A:So I wanted to be a dermatologist because I wanted to find skin cancer.
Speaker A:I was training in Southern California where I saw all These young, beautiful 20 year old blondes with a cancer that they were going to die from in six months.
Speaker A:We had no treatment.
Speaker A:So number one, first and foremost is to become familiar and comfortable with your body.
Speaker A:It's still amazing to me how we're these pure young children and we're so in tuned with who we are and then society takes a hold of us and we become insecure and then it takes almost a lifetime to become comfortable with yourself.
Speaker A:So look at all of your body, be proud of your body, know your body, accept your body and be familiar with all of the spots.
Speaker A:Is there something new that's standing out that's different from their anything else?
Speaker A:What I call an ugly duckling.
Speaker A:Because we all have patterns of moles, we have patterns of normal growths and then we have things that don't belong to the rest of the family and that body and that's what we want to look out for.
Speaker A:So skin cancer is very treatable if it's found early.
Speaker A:It can present like a little lump that looks like a cyst.
Speaker A:It can present obviously as a dark spot.
Speaker A:It can present as a pimple that doesn't go away.
Speaker A:And one in five people will get a skin cancer during their lifetime.
Speaker A:So I wouldn't be doing the audience any service if I didn't talk about skin cancer.
Speaker A:Obviously prejuvenation or slowing down the rate of aging versus anti aging.
Speaker A:I don't like to focus on anti anything but slowing down the rate at which we age so that our energy matches the way we look in the mirror.
Speaker A:That's often something that we want to be congruent, that's really important.
Speaker A:And we can do that with skin care, we can do that with diet.
Speaker A:We can do that through lifestyle.
Speaker A:That's another thing.
Speaker A:And then there's dry skin, there's different types of dermatitis.
Speaker A:There's things like that.
Speaker A:Acne is a big one, and then pigmentation is another one.
Speaker A:I'd say those are the big things that I see on a regular basis that are concerning to people that do disrupt their lifestyle, that interrupt the way they communicate and interact with other people.
Speaker A:I always ask the why.
Speaker A:Why does someone want to do Botox?
Speaker A:Why does someone care about the pigmentation?
Speaker A:Because ultimately we want to connect better with each other.
Speaker A:So anything that I can do to help someone feel more confident in their interactions is going to be empowering.
Speaker A:And then things fall into place where they start losing weight, having more energy, and being more successful in their careers and their relationships because you feel good about yourself.
Speaker A:And that's just, that's how we are.
Speaker A:We're social beings.
Speaker A:But I can dive into any of those.
Speaker A:Whatever you think.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I love the message that you shared of feeling good about ourself and being comfortable with our bodies, because I see as, just as you mentioned, we all struggle with that to some extent.
Speaker B:And we, as you said, take a lifetime to overcome that and be comfortable in our own skin.
Speaker B:But two things I'd like to circle back to, one of them is cancer, and the other one is Botox.
Speaker B:Two things that stood out for me.
Speaker B:So with cancer, you said one in five people, what are the root cause issues?
Speaker B:So one of the things that I've heard of, and maybe you can tell me if that's true or not, that so much of that has to do with lack of vitamin D, people's vitamin D levels being super low.
Speaker B:And so that makes you more prone to and susceptible to skin cancer.
Speaker B:First of all, is that true or false?
Speaker B:And if you do know some root causes that we could do to prevent, what are the things that we can do?
Speaker A:So there's correlations, but there's not causations really known.
Speaker A:So it's tricky because we know that UV radiation or sunlight can cause mutations in the DNA and, and lead to skin cancer.
Speaker A:So people with fair skin, like myself, like you, if you have fair skin, you're more likely to be sensitive to the UV radiation and develop skin cancer.
Speaker A:So basal cell cancer is like typically the pimple that doesn't go away.
Speaker A:One in three people will get that.
Speaker A:Typically Caucasians with fair skin, fair eyes.
Speaker A:And then there's other types of skin Cancers that tend to be more genetic and they're carried on different genes, sometimes linked with breast cancer and other things.
Speaker A:And I can see those where the sun doesn't go, like on breast and buttocks.
Speaker A:So we can't really link vitamin D with skin cancer.
Speaker A:And it's just so tricky because I love the sun.
Speaker A:I specifically like to live in areas that are sunny.
Speaker A:I need the sun in my eyes every day to be a full human being.
Speaker A:And I also think we could be smart about the sun.
Speaker A:So there's a healthy amount of sun.
Speaker A:I don't think we have it figured out yet.
Speaker A:And I do think we need the sun in small doses to set our circadian clock.
Speaker A:I think there's more to it with mitochondria as far as helping us be almost photosynthetic beings.
Speaker A:It gives us that joie de vie, that just zest for life.
Speaker A:Yet I've seen hundreds of thousands of patients, full skin check with their clothes off over the last 25 years.
Speaker A:And it's very obvious where the sun caused significant damage.
Speaker A:So when someone takes their shirt off, like a rancher, for instance, you can see where the sun was for many years on the neck, the turkey neck, the discoloration of the face, the breakdown of the collagen, the coarseness of the wrinkles, and the way you can objectively observe how your skin naturally ages.
Speaker A:I think we're around the same age.
Speaker A:We're both over 50, correct?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So we're both in our 50s.
Speaker A:So what is the natural age of my skin?
Speaker A:Not so much my face, it's the upper inner part of my arm.
Speaker A:Does that not look like a three year old?
Speaker A:That's the natural age of our skin that the sun has not affected.
Speaker A:So the sun can cause mutations.
Speaker A:Now the second thing that comes into the play, which I think is the coolest thing about dermatology, is our skin is an immune organ.
Speaker A:If you have inflammation inside your body, you're going to see it on your skin.
Speaker A:If you have reduced immune system and your body is getting non filtered water, poor air quality, lots of UV radiation, you're having high cortisol, high stress levels, you're putting a lot of toxic load in your body through your diet, maybe you're even exercising too hard and you're having a lot of metabolic waste products from the steam engines of your mitochondria and you have a weakened immune system, you cannot correct those DNA mutations quickly enough.
Speaker A:And what happens is what used to be a lot of sun damage just turns into cancer, cancer, cancer, cancer.
Speaker A:And I've seen that over the years in people who have been in the sun a lot, from surfers when I lived in Hawaii, to ranchers when I worked in Colorado.
Speaker A:And they may have had a lot of sun damage or pre cancers.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden they start getting cancer, cancer, cancer.
Speaker A:It looks like just a growth, like a wart that won't go away.
Speaker A:And I say, okay, what is going on inside their body that their body can't correct those mutations?
Speaker A:Because we're making cancer right now, you and I, and our body's correcting it because it's amazing.
Speaker A:It's just a matter of giving our body a chance to correct something before it overgrows.
Speaker A:So in those cases I will do a workup and I could find colon cancer, lymphoma, leukemia, renal failure.
Speaker A:So there's often something else going on that the body's preoccupied with that it cannot keep track of any other mutations.
Speaker B:So do you mind if I bring it back one more time to vitamin D real quick?
Speaker B:So I agree with the sunlight that it needs to be in moderation, but you need some for sure.
Speaker B:But I think vitamin D can also come from your diet and supplementation.
Speaker B:Have you seen any evidence that people that have higher levels of vitamin D on their test are more prone to more resistant to getting skin cancer or just they have better sun tolerance in general?
Speaker B:And the reason it's this is anecdotal, but as you said, I'm very fair skinned, I almost never wear sunscreen and I hardly ever get burned anymore unless I really am overly really pushing my limits outdoors.
Speaker B:But my skin resilience have improved so much that I in the last couple of years been very focused on consuming a lot of cod liver oil, having things in my diet that really improves my vitamin D levels.
Speaker B:So I always test between 50 to 100 on my vitamin D.
Speaker B:And so just anecdotally I find it made me more resilient to the sun.
Speaker A:I think there's other things going on.
Speaker A:So there is no correlation between vitamin D and skin cancer at this point.
Speaker A:And the other thing is is we're looking at the compound effect over time.
Speaker A:So somebody might have had a high vitamin D level until they were 50 and then they start getting skin canc and now they stay out of the sun and they're low vitamin D.
Speaker A:I do like to get some vitamin D from the sun, not just supplementation.
Speaker A:I believe in supplementation is necessary because as we get older we do not convert vitamin D into the active form from the sun as well, so I do believe in supplementation.
Speaker A:And really no one overdoses on vitamin D if they're taking 5,000 IU a day with K2.
Speaker A:So I think that's pretty standard for most people nowadays because you just don't want to take a risk of being.
Speaker A:Being vitamin D deficient, especially in women, because vitamin D is more of a hormone than anything else.
Speaker A:So I don't see that correlation.
Speaker A:But I think what's happening just listening to you is your diet is so pristine, and when you look at fruits and vegetables, the color in them, the polyphenols in there, as well as the astaxanthin that's in wild Alaskan salmon or shrimp, or the carotenoids that are in different substances, or the polyphenols in the olive oil, all of these things that are absorbed into the vegetable or the animal are imported into our cells and actually function as an SPF in our skin.
Speaker A:So we have the ability to increase the SPF of our skin naturally through what we consume, foods and supplements, as well as lower the SPF of our skin.
Speaker A:So if we're eating seed oils and inflammatory food, we are going to turn into toast.
Speaker A:We're basically going to get brown spots.
Speaker A:And it's called the Mayard reaction with carbohydrates mixed with he and it turns that brown reaction.
Speaker A:That's what fake Tanner does.
Speaker A:And you can do it to yourself on the inside.
Speaker A:So there's not a lot of science behind it.
Speaker A:But I could tell you, I do pattern recognition for over 25 years and I see it.
Speaker A:I can tell someone's diet, I can tell how they drink, I could tell how much stressed they are just by looking at their skin.
Speaker B:And just.
Speaker B:This is going to be my last question about cancer.
Speaker B:Is there anything we can do preventatively?
Speaker B:Do you have any top three supplements that people that are really prone to skin cancer like you mentioned, Astaxanthin, polyphenol phenols.
Speaker B:Is there anything specifically that can be preventative?
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:So there is a fern extract called Polypodium leucotomus, and it comes in different name brands.
Speaker A:There's one called Heliocare.
Speaker A:Helio is sun in Greek.
Speaker A:I believe there's one made by a dermatologist called Inner Glow vitamins.
Speaker A:And we can put these in the show notes for you, and you can take those every day.
Speaker A:And it increases your SPF of your skin to about a seven or so.
Speaker A:So they do testing and see how quickly people burn.
Speaker A:I also like astaxanthin.
Speaker A:I love fish.
Speaker A:Oil, fish oil will increase the SPF of your skin.
Speaker A:It is a blood thinner, so you need to check with your doctor regarding how much to take.
Speaker A:I typically will take 2,000 a day.
Speaker A:And then also niacinamide, which we know.
Speaker A:Nicotinamide, niacinamide, 500 milligrams twice a day has been shown in studies to reduce recurrence of skin cancer.
Speaker A:So if someone gets a basal cell cancer, for instance, or multiple, and they take niacinamide 500 milligrams twice a day, they don't have as many basal cell cancers.
Speaker A:It reduces their rate of recurrence of new basal cell cancers from forming.
Speaker A:So those would be my top three or four.
Speaker A:I play with this and what I believe now might change for the future.
Speaker A:And we were talking offline before.
Speaker A:I live in Arizona, so I live somewhere sunny.
Speaker A:If you're living somewhere where it's really cold right now, this isn't really doable.
Speaker A:But where we see the most skin cancers, the most photo aging.
Speaker A:The most aging over time is what I call the high real estate areas or the high value areas of your face, your neck, the the chest that peaks out and the back of your hands.
Speaker A:So I do recommend wearing SPF 30 or higher containing zinc oxide to those areas every day before leaving the house.
Speaker A:And I don't use sunscreen elsewhere.
Speaker A:I just do those other lifestyle things.
Speaker A:And I mitigate when I'm in the sun.
Speaker A:So I will wear a wide hat, but I purposely try to expose my torso and my legs about 10 to 15 minutes three times a week.
Speaker A:To get vitamin D without getting sun damage, you do not need to get tan or burnt.
Speaker A:If you're getting tan or burnt, you've already maxed out how much vitamin D you can get.
Speaker A:So it's little amounts.
Speaker A:It's not lot amount, it's little amounts.
Speaker A:Over time, small amounts will help keep your vitamin D and your energetic she maximized without really harming the skin.
Speaker A:We don't want to overload where we're causing a lot of DNA mutations.
Speaker B:So you mentioned sunscreen, so I want to have a quick follow up on that.
Speaker B:Sunscreens can be very toxic and can have a lot of toxic ingredients.
Speaker B:You mentioned zinc oxide as the main ingredient.
Speaker B:Do you have any brands or anything specifically that you recommend that are clean sunscreen?
Speaker A:I always recommend people go to the skin deep@e.org I personally feel that when I'm applying something to a small area like my face, my neck and my chest and the back of my hands, I don't overanalyze things as much as if I'm putting it on a large surface area because the skin does not really absorb very well.
Speaker A:Zinc oxide is inert.
Speaker A:It's not going to be absorbed through the molecules.
Speaker A:I avoid chemical sunscreens.
Speaker A:I always have.
Speaker A:This is not a new thing for me.
Speaker A:I've always recommended only zinc, maybe titanium.
Speaker A:And then if you're prone to pigmentation, use a tinted sunscreen because it has iron oxide which will help protect from blue light.
Speaker A:So I like Eltamd.
Speaker A:I use Elastin hydro Tint.
Speaker A:I like these tinted sunscreens.
Speaker A:And people really just need to try things that work for their skin tone.
Speaker A:Don't stress about a small area.
Speaker A:It's really not something to stress over for a small area.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:You're not going to get the absorption that you think you're going to get.
Speaker A:You're getting more toxins from tap water, to be honest with you, with the things we can't filter through there.
Speaker A:And I, I like to be brand agnostic, but Eltamd tends to do well.
Speaker A:Elastin Hydro Tint, Isdin is a nice one.
Speaker A:Isdin, they have some DNA repair enzymes in in them that can help reverse some of the DNA mutations we talked about.
Speaker A:And they have a tinted sunscreen and even La Roche posay and helios.
Speaker A:SPF 50.
Speaker A:Tinted is mineral based.
Speaker A:Avoid the avobenzones, the oxybenzones, Avoid anything that's not zinc.
Speaker A:O there's multiple chemicals on there.
Speaker A:Just avoid it.
Speaker A:It's no, it doesn't even work as effectively because as soon as heat hits it, it dissipates and it loses its SPF abilities.
Speaker A:So I wouldn't use it.
Speaker B:So I'm finally circling back to Botox.
Speaker B:My question, somebody who's more sort of integrative, holistic in your approach, is that something that you still use in your practice?
Speaker B:And what's your take on the toxin load that especially women have so many chemicals and things that they put on their skin like their beauty routine.
Speaker B:And now you're injecting things into our body.
Speaker B:What's your take on Botox?
Speaker A:So Botox we're using as the name brand almost like we would use Q tip or band aids.
Speaker A:So there's five different FDA approved neuromodulators.
Speaker A:So they're neuromodulators.
Speaker A:I, I don't like the word toxin because it sounds horrifying.
Speaker A:So they weaken muscles that cause Lymes.
Speaker A:I have it.
Speaker A:I can't really frown.
Speaker A:So if you have A line that is caused by muscle movement and you are okay losing the function of the muscle, then Botox is okay.
Speaker A:There have been numerous studies because we've used it since the 90s, that there is no systemic absorption, blood levels are undetectable.
Speaker A:I still wouldn't use it in someone pregnant because that's just reckless.
Speaker A:It's not even worth the risk.
Speaker A:But there's some really cool studies with Botox and the other neuromodulators because if you can't frown, you don't get that intense heavy feeling and it actually lessens depression, which is pretty cool.
Speaker A:On the other hand, people were going to the opposite extreme and freezing every line in their face and walking around frozen and in shock all the time.
Speaker A:And 7% of what I'm saying right now are the words.
Speaker A:The rest is the cadence of the speech, the tone of my voice, the micro expressions you and I are making together.
Speaker A:When I see you, my eyebrows elevate.
Speaker A:Hi.
Speaker A:Or she, great to see you.
Speaker A:If you can't do that, people aren't reading you and you're not reading them.
Speaker A:So these micro expressions that we do when we squinch when we're happy to see someone, and not the fake smile, but the squinch, I'm doing it if you guys can see me on audio.
Speaker A:So like the squinch versus the.
Speaker A:That's off.
Speaker A:It's just off.
Speaker A:So if you cannot make micro expressions because you've been over Botoxed, what happens is it reduces your ability to communicate with people.
Speaker A:And not for only them to read you, but when you say something, I actually make a micro expression before I feel it and respond to you.
Speaker A:Vanessa Van Edwards has great research on this.
Speaker A:And just about the way people communicate with each other, you will feel a look of disgust or a look of excitement when somebody hears something before they even respond.
Speaker A:So if you're not able to do that, you actually are not even able to read the other person.
Speaker A:So it's inhibiting our ability to communicate with each other when we do it wrong.
Speaker A:So I think that Botox is a hammer or maybe a screw in building a house.
Speaker A:It's not the one thing, and you have to tread carefully.
Speaker A:I don't think it's toxic.
Speaker A:I think there's more botulism toxin in honey, which is why you can't give honey to a baby than we put in someone's face for cosmetic reasons.
Speaker A:There's also numerous medical reasons we use Botox or botulinum toxin.
Speaker A:That's controlled dose properly for kids with Cerebral palsy.
Speaker A:So they're not hyperspastic.
Speaker A:And those doses are hundreds of times more than for cosmetic reasons.
Speaker A:And those kids are fine.
Speaker A:And for bladder spasms and for vocal spasms and eye spasms.
Speaker A:So I don't live in a black and white world.
Speaker A:I think there is a purpose for it.
Speaker A:I think it is one of the ultimate biohacks because it does come from nature.
Speaker A:And we're, we're utilizing it in a way that can be smart, but it can be dangerous.
Speaker A:It just comes into the hands of the injector.
Speaker B:I think a lot of women just exhale deeply and feel a lot more relaxed about what you sucker.
Speaker B:So that's been.
Speaker A:I'm just the judge, you know, I'm not the judge.
Speaker A:Everybody has the ability to make the decision for themselves and if it's right for them or wrong for them.
Speaker A:And the cool thing about it is you can do it once and if you don't like it, it wears off in three months.
Speaker A:And if you do like it, unfortunately, you have to keep doing it every three months.
Speaker B:So I want to go back to skin conditions you mentioned.
Speaker B:Obviously they are not just surface level problems.
Speaker B:So what are the biggest internal factors driving how, for example, gut health is that have a huge impact on our skin conditions like acne, rosacea, inflammation.
Speaker A:What are other factors?
Speaker B:Internal things, since you're approaching this from a holistic angle that you see being root causes of skin problems?
Speaker A:Well, gut is a huge one.
Speaker A:And if you look at the skin, it comes from the same organ as the gut.
Speaker A:And your mouth is connected with your gut, which everts and connects to your skin and then down to your anus.
Speaker A:And it's just one big entire envelope that goes in and out.
Speaker A:So we always want to look at the gut, always.
Speaker A:It's hard.
Speaker A:Changing our diet and doing the things in the society that we live in is hard.
Speaker A:But it's also the biggest thing in our control that we don't have to reach externally for expecting a medication or a treatment from the dermatologist.
Speaker A:So typically when I'm in the office, I will use western medicine to get a result quicker while also instilling some things for people to do at home, whether it's supplements and diet and even breathing, because breath work is free and it's available anytime in the grocery line, at the stops, light, anywhere.
Speaker A:So I do like the 4, 7, 8 breath or even box breathing.
Speaker A:But I'm a big 4, 7, 8 breath person and those are big things.
Speaker A:Their diet is a really big thing.
Speaker A:I'd Say diet, cortisol.
Speaker A:Cortisol and hormones.
Speaker B:Let's talk about hormones a little bit because obviously especially a lot of women in my audience are the perimenopause, menopause age group.
Speaker B:But even obviously going through puberty, you see so many skin issues.
Speaker B:So as women go through all these hormonal shifts, how do they affect the skin condition and what are the things we can do to improve our skin?
Speaker A:So children, young children will typically get eczema or atopic dermatitis.
Speaker A:And I always tell the parents it will start to get better around the time they get acne because that's when oil glands start to develop.
Speaker A:So we go into those puberty years where we start getting more predisposition to acne because of the hormone changes.
Speaker A:And even the infraredian rhythm can affect the way our skin is.
Speaker A:So during the follicular phase, the beginning, your audience is probably very familiar with the infraredian rhythm.
Speaker A:So, okay, the first 14 days, the follicular phase of the cycle is when your hormones are at the lowest.
Speaker A:So your estrogen is really low, your progesterone is low, and the skin tends to be more dry.
Speaker A:So people might not be able to tolerate alpha hydroxy acids or beta hydroxy acids or retinols that they were able to tolerate just a few weeks ago.
Speaker A:So we have to add more hydration, be lighter on the cleansers, and be a little bit more deliberate with things.
Speaker A:And then during ovulation, that's when you can play around with everything.
Speaker A:Your skin is glowing, it's vibrant, your collagen is boosted because of the estrogen peaking and you can even put new things and try new things and your skin will be highly tolerant.
Speaker A:And then around the alludeal phase is when people tend to break out, there's more oil, and that's when we really want to focus on salicylic acid or hydroxy acids, whether it's alpha or beta hydroxy acids and maybe some directed treatments towards acne.
Speaker A:So that's how we change every month.
Speaker A:Men change every 24 hours.
Speaker A:We change every month.
Speaker A:We don't need to apologize for this.
Speaker A:This is how we are.
Speaker A:We're like the wind.
Speaker A:We are like the wind.
Speaker A:We are going to blow and we are going to change direction all the time.
Speaker A:And that's just how it is.
Speaker A:And it's okay.
Speaker A:We are all doing this.
Speaker A:I think the only difference between a 40 year old and 20 year old is you know that it's going to change tomorrow.
Speaker A:So you don't think it's permanent.
Speaker A:The tricky time that I find is around age 35 to 55, when you're in that long, long perimenopause and your progesterone's starting to go low, there's days you're estrogen dominant, there's days you're not.
Speaker A:It's very unpredictable, and that can be really hard.
Speaker A:So you don't want to necessarily go on estrogen supplemental therapy systemically, because there are days your estrogen is high compared to your progesterone, but that's the time.
Speaker A:I love starting people on estrogen topically because we find that we lose about 1% of collagen a year starting in our late 20s, and then at the time of menopause, we drop by 30% in the first five years of menopause.
Speaker A:And what it looks like to me clinically.
Speaker A:So, whereas I might treat someone for Botox because They have deep 11 lines between their brows, when someone is low on estrogen and has a very specific look, to me, it's almost like you had a birthday party and the balloon was left in the corner and everybody forgot about it, and you come back two weeks later and it's deflated and it has lots of little teeny crinkles.
Speaker A:And that's what low estrogen looks like because the collagen is broken down and become disorganized, and there's not a scaffolding for anything to bounce and lift.
Speaker A:So if someone is or isn't on systemic estrogen supplemental therapy, I still like topical estriol or estrogen, because it does help to retain and reverse some of that collagen breakdown that happens with hormones.
Speaker A:That's really unavoidable with any other treatment.
Speaker A:You can get lasered, you can get Botox, you can get filler.
Speaker A:If your estrogen is low, you're gonna have certain luck.
Speaker B:What's your take on putting estradiol or estriol directly on your face?
Speaker B:The actual cream directly on your face?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker A:I'm a beat fan.
Speaker A:I've done it for many, many years, since the Women's Health Initiative came out.
Speaker A:I was rotating through the Mayo Clinic at the time, and my preceptor, who was my mentor, looked at me, and she's like, everyone's gonna age so quickly.
Speaker A:And I said, can we put it on topically?
Speaker A:She goes, it doesn't work.
Speaker A:But I always had it in the back of my mind, and now it's a thing.
Speaker A:Now we know.
Speaker A:It definitely helps.
Speaker A:Whether you put it everywhere or just under your eyes, in the neck area, the hot spot.
Speaker B:That's one of my biohacks.
Speaker B:And I was gonna ask you about that.
Speaker B:That I do have a bias cream that I use.
Speaker B:And literally I only grab my face on my neck because it's also like a really nice product moisturizer at the same time.
Speaker B:And that's the only thing I put on my skin.
Speaker B:But I also use estradiol systemically too.
Speaker B:So I put it in other places on my body too.
Speaker B:But I use a bias just for my cream because of the estriol content.
Speaker B:And you just confirmed that that was a good strategy for somebody who's in menopause.
Speaker A:It is in perimenopause.
Speaker A:I still cycle every month, so I'm not on systemic, but I still use the topical.
Speaker A:I struggle with melasma because I'm half Spanish.
Speaker A:So if I start getting a little bit of pigmentation, which we know is linked to hormones, I'll back off on the topical.
Speaker A:But if you don't struggle with melasma and you're perimenopause and you see that deflated balloon look I was describing, it really is not gonna hurt you to do it topically.
Speaker A:There's no systemic absorption.
Speaker A:So it's been shown to be able to be tolerated in women who have had hormone sensitive breast cancer, that it's contraindicated for them to be on systemic hormone supplemental replacement therapy.
Speaker A:They can still use topical.
Speaker A:So some women are using their vaginal estradiol cream.
Speaker A:There's specifically made estriol creams that are compounded for the skin and they can be made with different ingredients like GHKCU or DMao or DMae or hyaluronic acid or vitamin C.
Speaker A:So there's different compounded agents.
Speaker A:They're typically prescription only only, but you can incorporate it with any skincare regimen that you're doing currently and just incorporate this as a different step, which I'm happy to go into.
Speaker B:So is that a prescription that you write as a dermatologist for?
Speaker B:And then it has Estriol, G, H, K, C and some of the other peptides and other things that do a lot of magic on our skin at the same time, can you break down these different compounds and what they do and if somebody's looking for especially over the counter options for what should they be looking for and what are the big red flags that maybe a product is not legitimate or the concentration is too low.
Speaker B:Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker A:So going back to your point about clean skin Care, we really want to start taking a look at every single thing we're putting on our skin and risk versus benefit.
Speaker A:So with sunscreens, I don't go crazy about the preservatives because I know I need it and it's going to help protect me from UV radiation.
Speaker A:This is radiation we're dealing with, not just light.
Speaker A:So I do only look for zinc oxide and avoid the chemicals.
Speaker A:And the sunscreen is always your last step before makeup.
Speaker A:When you're applying things, you go thinnest to thickest.
Speaker A:Now, with the rest of my skin care, I look for leaping bunny standards because I care about the world.
Speaker A:So you wanted to really check your skin deep ewg.
Speaker A:Look for leaping bunny standards and get things that are clean.
Speaker A:It's very simple.
Speaker A:You don't need 10 steps in the morning and 10 steps at night.
Speaker A:So we do want to cleanse in the morning, we do want to cleanse at night because our skin is one of our major detoxification organs.
Speaker A:So even if you cleanse at night, you're like, why do I need to cleanse in the morning?
Speaker A:It's because overnight our pores are extruding metabolic waste products, dirt, debris, things that were absorbed during the day that maybe we didn't wash off at night.
Speaker A:And when you have a clean palette, then the topical medications or the topical serums you apply are going to be better absorbed and get to where they need to be in the skin for cleansing.
Speaker B:Before you go any further, is there soap and water enough or do you need any special cleanser?
Speaker A:Don't use soap and water.
Speaker A:You don't want your skin to be stripped.
Speaker A:If you're oily or acne prone, then you want to look for something like salicylic acid.
Speaker A:Because salicylic acid comes from the same tree as aspirin, the willow tree.
Speaker A:And it is anti inflammatory.
Speaker A:And salicylic acid is paratolitic, which means it, it exfoliates or loosens up the dead skin cells, but it also doesn't irritate the skin because it's anti inflammatory.
Speaker A:And then third, it's attracted to oil glands.
Speaker A:So if you're prone to acne or clogged pores or big pores or oil or inflamed.
Speaker A:I like salicylic acid once a day, twice a day if you can tolerate it.
Speaker A:If you have normal skin like most of us, I just like a gentle cleanser.
Speaker A:Anything that is basically going to remove your makeup and your dirt and also not dry out your skin, you should not feel like your skin is tight, afterwards, it should not feel tight because we don't want to compromise the skin barrier with too many harsh chemicals and damage the microbiome.
Speaker A:We want to cleanse our skin without changing the microbiome of our skin because that can cause more problems over time.
Speaker B:DLNES products.
Speaker B:I know you're agnostic about that, but if you could just maybe imagine one or two things that you recommend for cleansers.
Speaker A:So I'm actually creating one through a company called Moon and Skin, and it's a kale protein cleanser, and I like it.
Speaker A:I do little tests on these things because what can I create that can be the best for most skin types and not cause any problems?
Speaker A:It's always a challenge because everybody has different skin types.
Speaker A:And whether we get to this today or another time, we want to cycle in sync with nature.
Speaker A:So every season we want to look at our skincare regimen and adjust it because seasonal changes affect our skin type.
Speaker A:Our skin type is not the same in the summer as it is in the winter.
Speaker A:So there's a kale protein cleanser that I've created, and when I do micellar water afterwards, nothing gets picked up.
Speaker A:So I know it's doing a good job cleaning it without stripping the membrane.
Speaker A:So that's the cleanser I recommend that I use.
Speaker A:And then in the morning, we want to work with our circadian clock.
Speaker A:Once again, we're working with the rhythm of nature.
Speaker A:We're not trying to hack anything or change anything.
Speaker A:We're just syncing ourselves with nature because nature's smarter than humans.
Speaker A:We think we're smarter, but nature's smarter, so why not work with it?
Speaker A:So in the morning, our body, as soon as we hit light, we're in a protective and defensive mode.
Speaker A:So we want to support that with antioxidants on the skin, like a vitamin C, vitamin E, ferulic acid, those type of products.
Speaker A:And there are many different types of vitamin C.
Speaker A:It gets complicated.
Speaker A:So there's ascorbic acid, L ascorbic acid, which all the other types convert to in the skin.
Speaker A:The problem with L ascorbic acid is as soon as it hits light, heat and oxygen, it becomes inactivated.
Speaker A:So if you have a product that's vitamin C and it turns orange or brown, it's no good anymore.
Speaker A:So a lot of the technology and the formulation is what matters.
Speaker A:And there's a couple of other type names.
Speaker A:There's a T, H, D, ascorbate or sodium ascorbyl phosphate, and these forms convert to ascorbic acid.
Speaker A:In the skin and they're more stable.
Speaker A:So the THD, ascorbate, it's great.
Speaker A:It's a great form.
Speaker A:The sodium ascorbyl phosphate form I like for anyone who's predisposed to acne, because a lot of people who have acne tend to get worse with vitamin C.
Speaker A:And the thing about acne is that people who have acne tend to have lower antioxidant levels.
Speaker A:So they really need the vitamin C, but the ascorbic acid is breaking them out.
Speaker A:So for those people, they want to look for sodium ascorbyl phosphate, it's like nutrition labels.
Speaker A:You have to read the ingredient list and vitamin C.
Speaker A:And then if you deal with acne, put something that's good for acne on your face.
Speaker A:If you deal with pigmentation, you can do a pigmentation product.
Speaker A:If you don't and you're just preventative or stable or routine, you just put your sunscreen on moisturizer if you need it.
Speaker A:In the summer.
Speaker A:We usually don't need as much moisturizer maybe on the periphery of our face or the neck for those of us that are more mature.
Speaker A:And the chest, I treat the face, the neck and the chest as one unit.
Speaker A:Whatever I put in those areas, I take on my palm and sweep the back of my hands because I want all those areas to age equally.
Speaker A:I don't want my hands to look old or my neck to look old compared to my face.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:This is all one unit when I talk about these things.
Speaker A:Then your sunscreen in the morning, then your makeup.
Speaker A:And if you're doing multiple serums, make sure every layer dries completely before the next layer.
Speaker A:And thinnest the thickest, basically thinnest to thickest.
Speaker A:But really no one needs more than four steps in the morning.
Speaker B:Quick follow up on vitamin C serums that people use.
Speaker B:So I want to hear about that.
Speaker B:And then compared to eating a lot of foods with vitamin C in it and antioxidants, do you do both by eating it?
Speaker B:Is that going to show up on your skin or taking it as a supplement?
Speaker B:What's your take on putting on your skin versus consuming it orally?
Speaker A:I don't think there's a lot of science behind supplements.
Speaker A:I do take a liposomal vitamin c though, about 500 milligrams to a thousand with my collagen peptides.
Speaker A:Because vitamin C is an important co factor in producing collagen in the skin.
Speaker A:So what we do internally to nourish our skin is important.
Speaker A:It's vital, actually.
Speaker A:But what we do externally.
Speaker A:To nourish is also important.
Speaker A:So when we do something internally, how effective it is on our skin is dependent on our blood supply.
Speaker A:So having a good blood supply is going to allow the nutrients and the oxygen to get delivered and then the lymphatics and the blood supply to remove the metabolic waste products.
Speaker A:So often if someone's puffy under their eyes, I want them to do rebounding, jumping jacks, anything that's going to help boost their lymphatics, because it's just stuck.
Speaker A:And that's why hydration is important.
Speaker A:It's not talked about enough how important our interstitium is in getting things to flow and cycle and move through.
Speaker A:So people will say, oh, water doesn't matter.
Speaker A:It does matter because we need to flush.
Speaker A:We need to constantly flush and flow and not have sludge moving to our bodies.
Speaker A:So going back to your point, we need both.
Speaker A:We need internal nourishment and external nourishment because the skin is defending us from the outside world.
Speaker A:But if you neglect the inside and only do the outside, it's a combination approach.
Speaker A:We can't decorate the upstairs bedroom of the house without building a foundation of the floor, of the ground of the building.
Speaker A:You need both.
Speaker B:Switching topics a little bit.
Speaker B:Is there any current treatments available that are really effective for scars and improving appearance of scars?
Speaker A:It depends on what type of scar.
Speaker A:So there's different types of scars.
Speaker A:There's atrophic scars, which are like a divot, like stretch marks where there's loss of elasticity.
Speaker A:There's hypertrophic scars, which are elevated, bumpy scars that typically happen areas of tension.
Speaker A:And then there's keloids, which outgrow the boundary of the scar, and that's more genetic.
Speaker B:I'm a keloid scar person and I.
Speaker B:I grew them massively.
Speaker B:And I always trying to figure out how do I get rid of that.
Speaker B:And I have not found anything that worked.
Speaker A:I've dealt with this for so many years.
Speaker A:We erroneously.
Speaker A:What you'll see out there is you'll see before and after is not to hit the plastic surgeons hard, but they'll often cut them out and then they'll show you an after picture.
Speaker A:And that after picture isn't long enough because if you wait a year, it's going to get worse because the person just forms too much TGF beta, which basically piles up extra scar tissue.
Speaker A:We've used different things, even at a chemotherapy agent called 5FU 5 Fluorouracil or intralesional Kenalog to help push it Down.
Speaker A:My first choice would be don't do any procedures you don't have to do, but if you do a procedure, the number one thing is to minimize tension on the area because this can get pulled apart and it doesn't know when to stop healing.
Speaker A:And it just keeps piling up scar tissue.
Speaker A:So minimizing tension.
Speaker A:So it doesn't have that constant pulling.
Speaker A:It won't have the desire to pile up the scar tissue, but definitely don't go cutting more because it will get worse.
Speaker B:I think that a lot of what was suggested to me is like, oh, let's cut out the scar and have a new scar and not work on that.
Speaker B:But then the new scar usually gets a little bit better, but it's still not great.
Speaker B:So will you say if somebody have surgery of some sort, maybe keeping sutures or things in longer to keep the tightness of the skin so it doesn't have that tension on the skin?
Speaker B:Or what would be a good solution for people like that?
Speaker A:So it's not even like keeping the sutures in for longer.
Speaker A:It's like the silicone.
Speaker A:Have you heard of the silicone adding.
Speaker B:I did all that, and no, it's.
Speaker A:Really very minimal because it isn't just like pulling on the area.
Speaker A:So, for example, there's a condition called acne keloidalis nugae, which is very common in African American men that shave the back of their head and they get shaving bumps and then ingrown hairs on top of that, which cause even more bumps.
Speaker A:And they could end up getting what looks like mushrooms on the back of their scalp.
Speaker A:And we erroneously, 20, 25 years ago, would remove those and cut them out and then close them back together with sutures.
Speaker A:But when you're removing something and you're closing up the space again, that's a lot of tension.
Speaker A:So an area on the jaw or on the shoulders or on the chest, those areas are under tension.
Speaker A:The muscles underne are pulling and pushing all the time.
Speaker A:Now, somewhere where we get a C section, like the bottom of our tummy that doesn't have a lot of tension, those scars are always gonna do better than something on the shoulder, chest or jaw where there's tension.
Speaker A:So we wanna minimize tension.
Speaker A:So what the best results we get is when we cut those scars out and we leave them alone and let them heal up by what we call secondary intention from the bottom up, which takes many months, and the scar actually looks better.
Speaker A:But if we close it under sutures, it grows into a big mushroom and it doesn't do Anyone?
Speaker A:Any service?
Speaker A:Because it looks good.
Speaker A:Deceptively for about three to six months.
Speaker A:Every cigar takes a full year to mature.
Speaker A:So there's lasers, like pulsed dye laser that can help get rid of the redness.
Speaker A:But the truth is that the redness is going to go away in a year anyway.
Speaker A:Whether it's a stretch mark or whether it's a scar or a pimple on your face, the redness, hyperpigmentation will fade over a year.
Speaker A:It takes every single scar one full year to fold fully mature.
Speaker B:You mentioned you cut this scar out and then you don't put sutures.
Speaker B:Then how do you close it or how do you make it?
Speaker A:You leave it.
Speaker A:You leave it by secondary intention.
Speaker A:Almost like if you just gashed yourself, you caused a gash and it takes very long to heal.
Speaker A:But this is for people that have severe keloids.
Speaker B:It actually heals without less keloids if you let it just to heal by itself.
Speaker B:Okay, so it's actually the sutures and all that that causes part of the.
Speaker A:Keloid formation if you're prone to keloids, because not everyone is.
Speaker A:The other thing I've done semi successfully is when I suture someone.
Speaker A:Okay, so just say someone is prone to keloids and they gash themselves on the forehead.
Speaker A:If you could see me on the video, they gash themselves here, or they get a skin cancer and we remove it here.
Speaker A:We will use Botox or another neuromodulator to weaken the muscles.
Speaker A:There can't be tension and the scar almost pulled.
Speaker A:And that works effectively.
Speaker A:You can't really do that on the chest or the shoulder or something like that, but you can use that selectively in certain areas where you can control muscle movement.
Speaker A:And I will also sometimes if I'm removing a skin cancer on someone's upper back area that is going to form a keloid, I will inject a little intralesional kenalog, a type of cortisone to the area to minimize that inflammatory response that causes the keloid to form.
Speaker A:And that can help mitigate it as well.
Speaker B:It's good to know that at least there are some solutions.
Speaker A:We haven't gotten very far with that.
Speaker A:I'm very unsatisfied, but I look at it like this.
Speaker A:Scars, they're almost like a map of our life.
Speaker A:I've looked at so many people from head to toe, and I find scars fascinating because they tell the story of someone's life.
Speaker A:And I think there's a beauty to that.
Speaker A:And I'd rather come from a crate a place of gratitude instead of saying, oh, I hate my ugly scar, like oh wow, isn't the body amazing?
Speaker A:We can get a wound and actually heal it with brand new tissue.
Speaker A:There's regeneration going on.
Speaker A:And I have a scar on my leg from a nail that I ran across in college and I never had it sutured.
Speaker A:And when I became a dermatologist said oh, I could revise that and make it look better.
Speaker A:And I thought, but then my leg would be so boring.
Speaker A:Because I like the idea that we're unique in certain ways.
Speaker B:I think that's the difference between men and women.
Speaker B:Men when they have a scar, they are like proud of it.
Speaker A:We try to get rid of it.
Speaker A:We can shift our perceptions and it will become contagious and then we'll all accept each other.
Speaker B:So I want to just ask you about some more biohacking things a little bit.
Speaker B:Nutrition, you mentioned collagen supplementation.
Speaker B:What's your take on that?
Speaker B:Let's start with that.
Speaker A:I'm a huge fan of hydrolyzed collagen peptides and with the glycine and the hydroxyproline and the proline, basically those amino acids are highly concentrated in the collagen of our skin and our joints.
Speaker A:So there are studies showing that taking anywhere from 10 to 30 milligrams of hydrolyzed collagen protein.
Speaker A:And I look for multi source collagen protein and I look for regeneratively I.
Speaker A:The source matters because we don't want anything contaminated with heavy metals or improperly farmed things because that matters to me.
Speaker A:So I used a couple different companies but I look for hydrolyzed collagen peptides, multi source.
Speaker A:So multi source peptides and I will even mix it in my coffee in the morning because it's the easiest thing to do.
Speaker A:And if you could take it with vitamin C, a lot of the good ones have vitamin C in it as well.
Speaker A:It has been shown in multiple studies to improve improve hydration in the skin to reduce fine lines and wrinkles.
Speaker A:So it's just such an easy thing to do.
Speaker A:It's a no brainer now that if you're taking 10 to 30 grams a day, it doesn't count towards the total protein because it's not a complete protein.
Speaker A:So I usually recommend most people aim for 1 gram per pound of body weight or ideal body weight and protein per day.
Speaker A:And you need it because your hair, your nails and your collagen are all made up of amino acids from protein.
Speaker A:So protein is a lot more important than I think people have realized over the years.
Speaker A:I spent 10 years being vegan and I was never so unhealthy in my life.
Speaker B:And now you mentioned amino acids, let's mention that as well.
Speaker B:So in addition to collagen supplementation, potentially women are notorious for not eating enough protein.
Speaker B:So one of the ways we could probably supplement that is with amino acid supplements.
Speaker B:What's your take on that for skin?
Speaker A:I want a complete protein.
Speaker A:I prefer food over anything else.
Speaker A:I've played around with BCAAs and essential amino acids just because I've done fitness competitions and stuff.
Speaker A:And I just think real food is the way to go for the most part.
Speaker A:The thing about collagen peptides, if you're eating ligaments and you're eating all of the meat, then you don't need collagen peptides.
Speaker A:But we don't eat that way.
Speaker A:We eat the chicken breast, we're not eating the knuckles on, on wings and things which carry the collagen in them.
Speaker A:So I don't.
Speaker A:Do you recommend essential amino acids extra for people?
Speaker B:I do, partly because no one eats enough.
Speaker B:So I agree with you.
Speaker B:That whole food nose to tail kind of diet, eating all parts of the animal, that would be the ideal.
Speaker B:But how many people actually going to do it?
Speaker B:In addition to that, women.
Speaker B:Just to get a hundred, one hundred twenty, one hundred thirty grams of protein in a day is ideal.
Speaker B:But I don't know too many people that will consistently do it unless they are bodybuilders or they're super focused on their nutrition.
Speaker B:So because it tends to be a struggle for most people, I recommend supplementing with a complete amino supplement, not BCA's, because they only have a certain amount of aminos.
Speaker B:But the complete amino supplement would be as close to as you can get to getting it from a natural source.
Speaker B:But you can also do a protein shake, those kind of things as supplements to just augment your overall intake of daily protein.
Speaker B:Because everything is built out of amino acids in your body or skin too, so it has to rebuild itself.
Speaker B:And if you don't have the building blocks available, I'm assuming that your skin would not turn over as quickly.
Speaker B:What's your take on that?
Speaker A:Well, I just want to go back to the essential amino acids.
Speaker A:So which one do you recommend?
Speaker B:So just the essential aminos that are complete amino acid.
Speaker B:So it has all the different amino acids in it.
Speaker B:I don't even know how many, like 13 incidentally.
Speaker B:I have actually right in front of my desk here that I have amino acids and some electrolytes and some other things, collagen all mixed together and I just drink it during the day.
Speaker B:But when I worked out, I had a entire jug in the morning.
Speaker B:So this is my second one.
Speaker B:And this helps with my overall protein intake because just like everyone else, I don't always hit my goals of eating enough protein.
Speaker A:I'm a firm believer in the protein leverage hypothesis though.
Speaker A:I feel like if I focus on protein, my appetite regulates itself and if I'm not very careful and deliberate about getting enough protein, this could be just my genetics as well.
Speaker A:Because I'm so predisposed to diabetes, if I was overweight, I have a horrible metabolic tendencies.
Speaker A:I find that if I I'm protein centric, I regulate my weight just fine.
Speaker A:But if I follow my desire to eat pizza and pasta, that's a whole nother story.
Speaker B:As a matter of fact, I usually recommend the people eating the protein first every meal and then getting everything else in with it, but focusing on the protein consumption in every single meal they have.
Speaker B:But despite all that, a lot of women still under eat overall don't eat enough calories.
Speaker B:And part of that they don't eat enough protein too.
Speaker B:But I'm in alignment with you on just getting in from whole foods if you can.
Speaker A:Food is information for our cells.
Speaker A:So we have our genes and then the food we take tells our cells if they want to regenerate your point of cell turnover or they need to spend time detoxifying.
Speaker A:If you drink soda, for instance, your body has to use so much energy and your liver is taxed out and your kidneys are taxed out.
Speaker A:Removing artificial color, artificial flavor sugars, all the chemicals in there just to get water.
Speaker A:So now your body can metabolize hormones and do all the other things and it just backflows.
Speaker A:So food is information for ourselves.
Speaker A:Just think of that.
Speaker A:But it's also a compound effect.
Speaker A:If we're 90% good, the other 10% is, is probably just fine.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I want to touch on.
Speaker B:You also mentioned GHKCU as a copper peptide.
Speaker B:Have you seen good results with that?
Speaker B:What's your take on that?
Speaker A: certified in peptides back in: Speaker A:For injectables, there's the black market or gray market areas.
Speaker A:And I find that GHKCU injectable works beautifully for hair or skin.
Speaker A:I'm not as impressed with the topical.
Speaker A:I had not seen the same results topically.
Speaker A:So when we were talking about topical formulations A lot of it comes down to the formulation, because the skin is a major barrier protecting the outside world from the inside world.
Speaker A:And we want to keep a healthy skin barrier.
Speaker A:Yet a healthier skin barrier is, the less things are going to penetrate.
Speaker A:So it comes down to the brilliant scientists that are able to put things in a molecular formula.
Speaker A:I like liposomal technology because the liposomal technology, whether it's a retinol or a vitamin C, allows for the molecule to get through the bilipid membrane of our skin to get to where it needs to be in the cell to regulate messages, whether the message is to work as an antioxidant or the message is to help cell turnover and renewal, like a retinol.
Speaker A:So I don't feel like the GHK KCU in the formulations that I've seen are working any better than a moisturizer.
Speaker B:Well, you've seen good.
Speaker B:The injectable having direct effect on your skin and hair.
Speaker A:I have, and I do think there is some benefit for hair in a topical solution compounded with other ingredients like minoxidil and things like that.
Speaker B:So as an md, you're not even able to get that from compounding pharmacies anymore.
Speaker A:I can get topical formulations from a compounding pharmacy, not the injectable formulae.
Speaker A:And even injectables, you want to cycle this through because copper is in a dance with zinc and we really want to cycle everything.
Speaker A:Our bodies.
Speaker A:Bodies want to cycle.
Speaker A:We're not meant to eat fruit all year round.
Speaker A:Fruit isn't there in the summer to make us chubby for the winter.
Speaker A:We are meant to cycle with the seasons, we're meant to cycle with nature.
Speaker A:And we're also meant to cycle with supplements and these topical things to boost.
Speaker A:Make our cells hungry for it, boost it again.
Speaker B:So if you were to cycle that, how do you cycle it?
Speaker B:Just a month on, one month off, or what's a good strategy for cycling?
Speaker A:I would do about four to six weeks and then take about three months off, off and then four to six weeks and do three months off.
Speaker A:We still need so much research in this area.
Speaker A:Everybody's individual.
Speaker A:The one thing I want to say about collagen, though, is when you're doing something to stimulate collagen, you need to give it three months.
Speaker A:So if I did a laser on someone today, if I did a laser on you to stimulate collagen, you're not going to see results in a week.
Speaker A:It's going to take three months, ideally six months, to see maximum collagen.
Speaker A:Regeneration.
Speaker A:So what you do today takes effect in three to six months.
Speaker B:I want to close it out with questions about for example, micro needling and prp, anything like that.
Speaker B:Is that still a popular treatment?
Speaker B:Is that working?
Speaker B:Is that something you use in your practice?
Speaker A:I love microneedling.
Speaker A:Microneedling, not micro rolling or not?
Speaker A:The derma rollers, I don't like the derma rollers.
Speaker B:Tell me the difference between the two.
Speaker B:So for those of us.
Speaker A:So microneedling basically uses like a stamper with a bunch of teeny little needles on it and you in a controlled, deliberate way, stamp in the skin to make small needle indentations in the skin.
Speaker A:Whereas a derma roller basically has the needles that you roll through the skin and it's shearing the skin, it's basically tearing through the skin.
Speaker A:So with microneedling we're using the concept of hermesis.
Speaker A:So we're causing a little damage to the collagen is enough to stimulate fresh collagen formation and reorganization.
Speaker A:Too much stimulation causes a scar, like going to the gym.
Speaker A:You lift a little weights, you get stronger.
Speaker A:You lift too many weights, you pull out your back.
Speaker A:So that's what hormesis is.
Speaker A:We're stimulating the body.
Speaker A:We're different from a machine.
Speaker A:We don't wear out.
Speaker A:The more we use it, we get stronger.
Speaker A:The more we use it, the more we use our brain, the more we use everything.
Speaker A:So that's why don't be afraid to touch your face when you wash at night because that stimulation of the, this of the skin will make it thicker.
Speaker A:So micro needling basically stamps small little needles into the skin in a controlled pattern, almost like a bingo card, but with needles, it spaced properly.
Speaker A:If it's done by the right person, you, you want to do it in the office.
Speaker A:This isn't an at home device.
Speaker A:Typically.
Speaker A:There are some at home devices I am currently evaluating.
Speaker A:I'll name them if I like them, I'll name them in future, but not right now.
Speaker A:They're not done with the vetting process as far as I'm concerned, because I've seen a lot I'm not happy with.
Speaker A:So I'm not going to, to state their names.
Speaker A:But typically you want to do them in the office.
Speaker A:And it stimulates collagen to form.
Speaker A:So I love it for acne scars and I love it for preventative.
Speaker A:If you have a lot of damage to your skin, a lot of hatch mark wrinkles, it's not enough to really make a huge difference.
Speaker A:You need to hit something bigger like a laser.
Speaker A:But I do, I do like it for that concept of hermesis to stimulate collagen formation.
Speaker B:And is there any other facial treatments that are not too invasive, that are amazing for facial rejuvenation?
Speaker B:Something that you can recover over a weekend, let's just say.
Speaker B:And it's not super invasive.
Speaker A:I always think of cost versus benefit reward.
Speaker A:And so a lot of these things, it's like when you go to the dentist and you get your teeth cleaned every six months or so, you can do a dermal infusion where there's basically a microdermabrasion where you're removing the top layer of the skin in a gentle way.
Speaker A:And then there's a second pass where you infuse different things in the skin.
Speaker A:Whether it's hyaluronic acid, it can be different brightening serums, it can be acne serums.
Speaker A:That's a very elegant procedure to do.
Speaker A:I just want to preface it by saying, if you're just doing that, but you're not taking care of your skin at home, you're wasting your money.
Speaker A:So just like you wouldn't go to the dentist and get your teeth clean, but not brush your teeth at home, skincare at home and taking care of yourself every day.
Speaker A:I never get a facial because that's how I wash my face.
Speaker A:I don't need someone to do all that.
Speaker A:I do it myself twice a day.
Speaker A:We deserve as women to take time for ourselves every day to massage our lymphatics, to wash our face, to touch ourselves and become familiar with our skin and accept us for who we are.
Speaker A:And then doing the steps in the morning and night, I think that's the the biggest spa thing that you can do every single day.
Speaker A:And it's the lowest hanging fruit and it's available for most people at not a high price point.
Speaker A:So I would do that.
Speaker A:And then these secondary procedures are additional.
Speaker A:They're bonus.
Speaker B:I love this conversation so much.
Speaker B:I have literally a hundred more questions.
Speaker B:But since we are running out of time, please tell us how can we find you?
Speaker B:Where is your office?
Speaker B:What do you offer in your office?
Speaker B:What services is.
Speaker B:Tell us all, everybody who listened to this going to want to see you.
Speaker A:I only do concierge now, so I've been doing this for 25 years, so I have a very small concierge project.
Speaker A:I'm more interested in educating people to become empowered to take care of themselves rather than to reach externally for me to give them the answers.
Speaker A:Because I think that everybody can achieve their best skin and their best health on their own.
Speaker A:So I love being on podcasts like yours that have a reach to the audience that I want.
Speaker A:I have a podcast called Radiance Revealed and you can find me on Instagram Rjen Haley and I'm currently writing a book so that will come out and that's basically teaching people how to sync with nature and the rhythms of your body and the cycles and seasons of our lives to become your best selves.
Speaker B:So amazing.
Speaker B:You're doing such a fantastic work.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker C:Thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker C:This is Maya.
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Speaker C:Better conversations, better tools, and health strategies that are actually built for our physiology.
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Speaker C:The views expressed on this podcast are solely those of the speakers and do not reflect the host's opinions.
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Speaker A:Sam.
